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Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

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Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#181

Post by Terretta »

Klonoar wrote: post #171
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step…

> I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. I honestly blame Apple for pushing FaceID, as it completely normalized facial recognition on a mass scale. Nobody thinks about this at all anymore. (No, it's not entirely Apple's fault, but I do think this point warrants more notice/discussion)

> Apple's fault

Apple showed how this can be done without compromise.

A combination of on-device-only FaceID and app-by-app opt-in to even trigger a validation, with on-device federal ID validation of some kind, putting you in control of presenting a cryptographically signed ID, would, in fact, be ideal for both convenience and privacy.

IF you're going to require ID, that would be a fine way.

The REAL issue is whether ID should be allowed to be required at all to move around, or if you have the right to anonymously assemble (and travel for assembly) within your own national boundary. That's the goalpost to debate.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#182

Post by MarkMarine »

godelski wrote: post #146
MarkMarine wrote: post #4

For this to work they must have already done facial recognition on everyone’s ID photos, so I fail to see what opting out even does for me from a privacy perspective. Seems like shutting the barn door after the horse is already out.

> They already have a little data, I fail to see why I shouldn't let them have everything. That's the extreme version of your comment. But it is also a common sentiment that people have around social media and other data collection

I don’t see opting out as an effective method to counter over reach in this case, sounds like it just makes life slightly less convenient for the TSA staff and the rare people that choose to opt out. Is the idea that a critical mass of people opt out and that slows down security enough that this pilot program is viewed as a failure?

The other form of fighting back against this, pushing lawmakers, seems far more effective

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#183

Post by kurtoid »

_yb2s wrote: post #36
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step…

TSA will punish you for opting out of anything. If you're lucky, the least they will do is hold you up a long time so you have a good chance of missing your flight. I've also had them sexually harass me, and confiscate (e.g. steal) legal items in retaliation for opting out of things I had the legal right to opt out of. They know people are in a hurry and won't do anything about being treated unethically or illegally,…

My 2c: I use precheck, and fly regularly between RDU and PBI. Opting out of the 3d face camera has always been easy, and I never had pushback from them. PBI has well placed opt-out signs, but I hadn't see them at RDU.

I expect that one day it won't be optional, but I'll avoid it while I can

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#184

Post by [deleted] »

stavros wrote: post #130
_yb2s wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA will punish you for opting out of anything. If you're lucky, the least they will do is hold you up a long time so you have a good chance of missing your flight. I've also had them sexually harass me, and confiscate (e.g. steal) legal items in retaliation for opting out of things I had the legal right to opt out of. They know people are in a hurry and won't do anything about being treated unethically or illegally,…

> "I'd bet you opted out because you like this." "You're damn right I like it, usually I have to pay for it."

[deleted]

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#185

Post by mistrial9 »

neuroelectron wrote: post #137
quotemstr wrote: post #14

I'll take facial recognition over long TSA lines any day. I can't wait until we have full-throughput non-blocking walk-through security.

Yeah but Senators can't bypass facial recognition the way they can evasive screening. Can't you think of their rights?

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#186

Post by antipaul »

netsharc wrote: post #12

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".

They've had facial recognition in Europe at airports for a few years now.

At least if you are EU citizen, you don't need to interface with humans.

I believe, though not certain, that you can opt out simply by going to the human booths (right?)

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#187

Post by avmich »

spacemanspiff01 wrote: post #174
smolder wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the intent, but evidently, (and sadly,) it doesn't work how it should. There's too much influence from moneyed interests and just too much bad faith participation and gaming of the various processes. It was bad when I was born and it's gotten ever more corrupt and dysfunctional since.

I think that the biggest issue is that congress is underfunded and has ceded too much control to the executive. By that I mean that the modern world is incredibly complex, yet in the house, each house member only gets 1.25 million per year for staff. Yet despite that they are supposed to create and manage the rules and regulations for a 30 trillion dollar economy. It's impossible, even if you have good faith of all a…

Doesn't Congress have all the access they want to the governmental services?

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#188

Post by antipaul »

_yb2s wrote: post #121
davisr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always opt out of the scanner (even have a special shirt [1]), and without fail they always stand me by the intake (radio-leaky-end) of the baggage x-ray machine for 5+ minutes. [1]: https://www.davisr.me/projects/art/tsashirt.jpg

Just saw this one- love the guy's eye contact also. He knows how to stand up to fascist jerks. https://preview.redd.it/travel-safe-for-thanksgiving-v0-i3ja...

How do you know the dude in blue is a fascist, and a jerk?

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#189

Post by raxxorraxor »

aaomidi wrote: post #57
jazzyjackson wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy traveling to Berlin for vacation, as it's a totally different atmosphere around privacy. Default payment is cash, your entry and exit from train stations is not tracked (surveilled perhaps, but you do not tap-in/tap-out or god forbid tap your credit card every time you step on a train like SF or NYC), and it's against the law to publish photographs of someone without their consent. Ask IBM what becomes of dat…

I think this is silly given how much Germany is actively helping a country where the PM of that country has an arrest warrant out for him through the ICC. Germany is still facilitating an alleged genocide. The only thing that has changed is the profile of the victims. The situation now is even worse, given that practically everyone in the world knows what’s happening but life is going on as normal.

You could have made a sensible argument about how security policies in Israel move in a wrong direction, even if it isn't at all on topic. But you stumbled here too.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#190

Post by jkestner »

remram wrote: post #151
bediger4000 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will never happen. The long lines and inconveniences are the point, not a side effect. How many shoe bombers does the TSA catch in a day? 0. In a month? 0. Since the only shoe bomber? 0. We still take off our shoes. Same with underwear bombs. 0. We still partially undress and do the nude-a-tron. The point is, we could already ditch the lines, we don't want to.

Unless you're old, then you get to keep your shoes. Only young people's shoes explode. It's science.

My hack to skip that part is to travel with kids. Keep your clothes on and just walk through the metal detector.
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