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The size of BYD's factory

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Re: The size of BYD's factory

#401

Post by hwillis »

adrianN wrote: post #316

So much roof space, so little PV. I guess in China they don't do rooftop PV as much because the regulations allow for cheaper installations somewhere on a meadow?

China has more distributed/rooftop solar than the US, percentage-wise. It's hardly like every big building in the US has rooftop solar, and Zhengzhou is more to the north of the country where there is less incident light.

That said a battery factory is a good place to put solar. The final stage of battery manufacturing is several priming charge/discharge cycles which build up resilient layers inside the battery. You can push power into/out of the grid (or use discharging batteries to charge other cells) but having a big DC source nearby is still going to be convenient.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#402

Post by tsudonym »

bobthepanda wrote: post #173
hackernewds wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China scaling and efficiency is really something else. it seems they've latched on to something that works better than even democracy and capitalism

They’re certainly good at building. Actually utilizing that capacity is something else entirely; there are factories less than ten years old shuttering due to overcapacity. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/business/china-auto-facto... And the rush to subsidize more capacity is a big contributor to local government debt burdens in China, which is estimated to leave Chinese debt to GDP at 117%.

Not a great take - those factories are foreign owned ICE car factories. Hyundai basically underestimated how fast China's EV transition would be.

That's good news for China, full speed domestic EV production.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#403

Post by lm28469 »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #120
JKCalhoun wrote: post #79

Wild, fascinating, frightening.

It's great news in the sense that this new energy storage and EV production capacity is (part of) our best chance to avoid catastrophic outcomes from climate change. It's terrifying because we (in the West) can't seem to motivate ourselves to do anything like this on the same timescale, and nations that suffered similar disparities in industrial capacity (not to mention energy production) haven't done well in the pas…

> It's great news in the sense that this new energy storage and EV production capacity is (part of) our best chance to avoid catastrophic outcomes from climate change.

How so ?

There are 1.4b vehicles on earth, petrol or batteries it just doesn't work out, especially if we keep using 2000-3000kg metal boxes to move 80kg meat bags 1hr a day and let them rot in a parking for the remaining 23 hours.

Not even talking about the fact that cars are but a fraction of the problem anyways

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#404

Post by pbasista »

adrianN wrote: post #316

So much roof space, so little PV. I guess in China they don't do rooftop PV as much because the regulations allow for cheaper installations somewhere on a meadow?

Since most solar panels, charging equipment, inverters and batteries are made in China, I would be very surprised if they did not utilize it on their own buildings, provided that they have sufficient money to fund it.

That being said, China still has very high air pollution levels, especially in the urban areas. As a result, it might not be as economical to build solar power installations in there.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#405

Post by lm28469 »

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #89
saturn8601 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are waking up, and to be fair, Tesla really led the way in the US for the last few years because they had no choice(no one would take them seriously). The question is can the West turn the ship around before its too late?

When Trump ups everything from China by 100% I guess US would be able to make something with profit?

It doesn't matter much if your shitbox is made in US or made in China when it cost 50k and nobody has the money for it

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#406

Post by maxglute »

RugnirViking wrote: post #370
torginus wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A truck like this represents a substantial amount of investment that costs almost the same if its sitting there as it does doing actual work. Not to mention the opportunity cost of having other similarly well equipped crews having to wait on you finishing the job. Why would you be surprised that no time and effort is spared in coordinating the work of these machines? Its like being surprised that items are constantly…

firstly, "doing useful work" for these trucks includes sitting still while being filled with spoil, not just driving around looking all fancy it's not about simply "coordinating". Logistics requires that you have the capacity to absorb unforseen issues and delays. When you have a system with 100% utilisation, the slightest delay at one point ripples out upsetting the balance of everything else and suddenly everything…

> coordinate such a photo op would be an almighty feat in itself

So why not coordinate the real thing instead of just a photo op. There plenty of idling equipment in the clip. This footage is pretty tame compared to rushed covid hospital construction, for which there were live streams and timelapse of activity greater than what's being shown. I've seen many PRC worksites like this IRL, it's about on par. Wouldn't be hard to launch a drone and flythrough through the busiest looking area for social media.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#407

Post by petesergeant »

ahartmetz wrote: post #242
toomuchtodo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With China's real estate sector stagnating (because they've built enough housing for future demand to an excess, broadly speaking), all of that capacity is moving towards clean energy manufacturing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025 https://thediplomat.com/2024/04/how-china-became-the-worlds-...

The doubts about the size of the investment in that Wikipedia article are funny. It's a bit like "We cannot afford to invest in education", but the Chinese are saying "We cannot afford not to invest in education" (Famous quotes, it's more about R&D here). China's leadership is probably terrified of falling into the middle-income trap. It might be the biggest issue on their minds right now. At least I am watching from…

> China's leadership is probably terrified of falling into the middle-income trap

I feel like it's more of a case of how do they get out of it, rather than avoid falling into it, at this point. The demographics are shit and the country isn't particularly attractive to immigrants, nor (unlike, America and Canada, and honestly most of Europe, despite what the right wing say) do they really have room for more immigrants.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#409

Post by mazugrin2 »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #392
mapt wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, China tends to classify aerial survey photos as strategic intelligence assets. Did a scientific project there. It was a whole thing. The local/city/regional CCP branch was not cooperative with even the most innocuous low altitude drone data gathering from foreigners for ecology studies, despite sponsorship by local & national universities. There is even a random-geometric-distortion obfuscation layer that you h…

Why did you expect local officials to stick their necks out for you? They don’t make the relevant laws but can be punished by higher authorities for breaking them. Unless it could be legally guranteed any potential punishment would be transferred to your team’s shoulders, it’s bizarre to expect someone else sitting in some municipal office to take the risk.

Why did you expect a foreigner who is not from China to realize that they'd be inhibited by the local authorities from doing work they were invited to do by those same local authorities? It's bizarre to think that it's bizarre that a foreigner might merely express some surprise by that.
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