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Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

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Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#21

Post by bencoder »

repsilat wrote: post #14
killyourheros wrote: post #2

I was a big opponent of bitcoin- still wouldn't use it for anything that matters- but there are some great use cases. With government bans on online gambling bitcoin could really take over(that market). And, of course, there is the illegal drug trade. When people say that "it's not backed by anything" all they need to do is fire up tor and take a peak at silkroad. It's backed by one of the most in-demand products eve…

I wonder if it's liquid enough to do an "instant trade". Essentially, you could route (possibly international) financial transactions through BitCoin and avoid big fees by doing a buy on the buyer's side, transferring the coins to the seller, then having them sell the coins in their local currency. The best part about this is that neither the buyer nor the seller needs to have the slightest interest in BitCoin and it…

This can be done but I believe it is a bit more expensive than via banks, since you have exchange fees and the spread as liquidity isn't quite high enough (assuming you want to transfer ASAP. If you are willing to wait on both sides you can do a lot better)

Example exchanging 500 GBP to EUR (via intersango at current rates):

Buy 104.6 BTC @ 4.76GBP Fees for instant trade: 0.95% = ~1 BTC. Balance: 103.6BTC

Sell 103.6BTC @ 5.8EUR = 600.88 eur Fees for instant trade: 0.95% = ~5.71. Balance: 595.17EUR

500 GBP went to 595.17EUR. Exchange rate: 1.19. (google tells me the exchange rate is about 1.26 at the moment, so this is quite poor)

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#22

Post by [deleted] »

Paul_S wrote: post #12
mtgx wrote: post #3

The last thing Bitcoin needs is another speculation craze based on its high value. If Bitcoin's value is growing, that's fine, let it keep growing naturally. Don't start publicizing it so it starts another speculation roller coaster, at least until the Bitcoin market is big enough to not be impacted much by speculation-based transactions.

Obviously, you are absolutely right. Then again, as much as I despise myself for it I did make a killing last time a bunch of idiots started buying them for >20$ a pop so I wouldn't mind. Taking money from speculators and giving money to geeks... I'm sure someone could spin this into something positive. I don't think it's going to hurt bitcoin, it's proven itself to withstand it and is here to stay.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#23

Post by Retric »

joering2 wrote: post #18

Ok but given current pricing of GPUs, is it profitable to mine the coins, given I have access to free electricity (my office building does not charge for that).

They are cutting the rate of bit-coin generation in half in January. (The total bit-coin's always stay under 21million but they don't use an exponential curve just cutting the rate in 1/2 every few years.)

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#24

Post by kiba »

csomar wrote: post #6

The reason for that is the death of Bitcoinica. Bitcoinica offered shorting, which stabilized prices at around $5. When Bitcoinica went out of business, the only way to make money on Bitcoin is to speculate its' price increase which will drive demand; which will drive its' price even more. That being said, it might be the right time to buy Bitcoins, and sell before the bubble bursts. However, for a more stable Bitcoi…

That's nonsense. Bitcoinica have virtually no effect on the market.

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#25

Post by vannevar »

Apparently we're in the "pump" phase of the Bitcoin pump-and-dump cycle. Really, the entire Bitcoin market would fit comfortably inside the volume of your average OTC penny stock. Does anyone not think the Bitcoin game is rigged?

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#26

Post by kiba »

repsilat wrote: post #14
killyourheros wrote: post #2

I was a big opponent of bitcoin- still wouldn't use it for anything that matters- but there are some great use cases. With government bans on online gambling bitcoin could really take over(that market). And, of course, there is the illegal drug trade. When people say that "it's not backed by anything" all they need to do is fire up tor and take a peak at silkroad. It's backed by one of the most in-demand products eve…

I wonder if it's liquid enough to do an "instant trade". Essentially, you could route (possibly international) financial transactions through BitCoin and avoid big fees by doing a buy on the buyer's side, transferring the coins to the seller, then having them sell the coins in their local currency. The best part about this is that neither the buyer nor the seller needs to have the slightest interest in BitCoin and it…

There's some report of an export business paying their supplier back in China in bitcoin. It's just a rumor though.

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#27

Post by cygal »

kiba wrote: post #24
csomar wrote: post #6

The reason for that is the death of Bitcoinica. Bitcoinica offered shorting, which stabilized prices at around $5. When Bitcoinica went out of business, the only way to make money on Bitcoin is to speculate its' price increase which will drive demand; which will drive its' price even more. That being said, it might be the right time to buy Bitcoins, and sell before the bubble bursts. However, for a more stable Bitcoi…

That's nonsense. Bitcoinica have virtually no effect on the market.

Care to elaborate?

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#28

Post by repsilat »

bencoder wrote: post #21
repsilat wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's liquid enough to do an "instant trade". Essentially, you could route (possibly international) financial transactions through BitCoin and avoid big fees by doing a buy on the buyer's side, transferring the coins to the seller, then having them sell the coins in their local currency. The best part about this is that neither the buyer nor the seller needs to have the slightest interest in BitCoin and it…

This can be done but I believe it is a bit more expensive than via banks, since you have exchange fees and the spread as liquidity isn't quite high enough (assuming you want to transfer ASAP. If you are willing to wait on both sides you can do a lot better) Example exchanging 500 GBP to EUR (via intersango at current rates): Buy 104.6 BTC @ 4.76GBP Fees for instant trade: 0.95% = ~1 BTC. Balance: 103.6BTC Sell 103.6B…

You're right, that's not good. I imagine it would get better if people started doing things like that in higher volumes, but that's a bit of a Catch 22.

Until then, there are a couple of mitigating factors:

- You may not get the market rate from anyone. The UK post office is only giving me a rate of 1.2260 to the Euro.

- If you need to pay a fee for a transfer it could be worthwhile for small amounts. The UK post office doesn't charge a fee, but it has a min transfer of £250. www.tranzfers.com charges £7 or $15AU. I've paid more elsewhere.

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#29

Post by pessimizer »

bencoder wrote: post #21
repsilat wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's liquid enough to do an "instant trade". Essentially, you could route (possibly international) financial transactions through BitCoin and avoid big fees by doing a buy on the buyer's side, transferring the coins to the seller, then having them sell the coins in their local currency. The best part about this is that neither the buyer nor the seller needs to have the slightest interest in BitCoin and it…

This can be done but I believe it is a bit more expensive than via banks, since you have exchange fees and the spread as liquidity isn't quite high enough (assuming you want to transfer ASAP. If you are willing to wait on both sides you can do a lot better) Example exchanging 500 GBP to EUR (via intersango at current rates): Buy 104.6 BTC @ 4.76GBP Fees for instant trade: 0.95% = ~1 BTC. Balance: 103.6BTC Sell 103.6B…

I've seen a lot worse at the airport. Assuming that people are using bitcoin for reasons other than a favorable exchange rate, 7 points isn't going to be a deal killer, or even a deal slower.

Re: Bitcoin just crossed $7.00.

#30

Post by dvanduzer »

Perhaps a bit off topic, but would a finance nerd recognize this style of graph better? I've never seen such a thing before, and it took a little while to understand what the instructions were saying. But once I got it, I was immediately confused that there aren't more commonly known high information financial visuals beyond the standard two axis graph.

Is it just that most exchanges somehow don't publicly publish such granular data?

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