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The size of BYD's factory

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Re: The size of BYD's factory

#211

Post by kalleboo »

greenthrow wrote: post #146
edhelas wrote: post #25

All this to produce machines of 2T to displace 80kg of human on average (think about it, the battery weight more than what it actually need to move on average) and maintain/develop car dependency infrastructures. This is the worst way of improving our efficiency and progress toward a more optimized, efficient economy and reducing massively our climate and biodiversity impact. I want those kind of factories to produce…

You might as well wish that the factories produced teleporters. You're putting the cart before the horse. You have to fix the demand side first. I know there's an online demand for public transportation and bikes and if you are in that bubble it can feel like the whole world is with you, but in the real world, most people (obvs not everyone) prefers to have their own car.

I think there's hope since the only thing people like more than their cars is being glued to their phones, and public transport enables you to do that during your commute.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#212

Post by robwwilliams »

harrall wrote: post #184
matthewdgreen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great news in the sense that this new energy storage and EV production capacity is (part of) our best chance to avoid catastrophic outcomes from climate change. It's terrifying because we (in the West) can't seem to motivate ourselves to do anything like this on the same timescale, and nations that suffered similar disparities in industrial capacity (not to mention energy production) haven't done well in the pas…

The bread and butter of progress is competition and I think a lot of American companies “won” like Boeing or Intel in the 90s and no one else could compete. Unfortunately winning is disastrous because it makes you complacent. Perhaps the most flagrant and dumbest example is Internet Explorer 6. I do not approve of raising tariffs on foreign vehicles because it will dull our edge in the long term. Protectionism is a s…

Intel was famously not complacent. Perhaps a long lapse starting a decade ago. But even then “complacence” was not the problem. Ditto for Boeing. Managerial focus on just milking the cow has been the fundamental problem: and they milked frantically—not complacently.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#213

Post by kcb »

hackernewds wrote: post #161
mrtksn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the west is that it’s already developed. Everything in the west is a bit like the European automobile industry, it’s highly refined for what it is and we expect to milk it for some time to come. Same thing happened with the financial institutions and internet infrastructure - those who had the early versions of it established early ended up lagging behind once the technology was superseded. The poore…

strongly disagree. the West has almost no manufacturing capability or labor force (at an affordable rate) at the moment. it's almost unsustainable even for a small business to be paying $20 an hour in some cities let alone run large factories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_assembly_pl...

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#214

Post by Teever »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #60
Teever wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the Chinese will build the factories that spit out drones en masse to invade their neighbours?

> Where do you think the Chinese will build the factories that spit out drones en masse to invade their neighbours? Where they're currently building drones.

In times of war factories will be retooled to best serve the needs of the military.

I anticipate that in a regional war China will need more aircraft than land vehicles, especially given that the regional adversaries they are facing are mostly island nations.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#216

Post by [deleted] »

mrtksn wrote: post #149
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #83

Can the west compete?

The problem with the west is that it’s already developed. Everything in the west is a bit like the European automobile industry, it’s highly refined for what it is and we expect to milk it for some time to come. Same thing happened with the financial institutions and internet infrastructure - those who had the early versions of it established early ended up lagging behind once the technology was superseded. The poore…

[deleted]

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#217

Post by foxglacier »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #182
hackernewds wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China scaling and efficiency is really something else. it seems they've latched on to something that works better than even democracy and capitalism

> it seems they've latched on to something that works better than even democracy and capitalism Wouldn’t this just be plain old fashioned authoritarianism? America can latch on to this too, and we might based on how the Trump admin turns out.

No. One required component is plain old fashioned oversupply of labor. America doesn't have that because all employable people are too rich. China also has an oversupply of skilled labor like engineers, in part because the threat of poverty is a strong motivator to get rich. America also lacks that which you can see in capable young people doing arts degrees with no thought to their future income because it doesn't matter - they'll still live comfortably even on minimum wage.

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#218

Post by Dalewyn »

hackernewds wrote: post #156
toomuchtodo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With China's real estate sector stagnating (because they've built enough housing for future demand to an excess, broadly speaking), all of that capacity is moving towards clean energy manufacturing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025 https://thediplomat.com/2024/04/how-china-became-the-worlds-...

China scaling and efficiency is really something else. it seems they've latched on to something that works better than even democracy and capitalism

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Re: The size of BYD's factory

#219

Post by Dalewyn »

tomcam wrote: post #183
matthewdgreen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great news in the sense that this new energy storage and EV production capacity is (part of) our best chance to avoid catastrophic outcomes from climate change. It's terrifying because we (in the West) can't seem to motivate ourselves to do anything like this on the same timescale, and nations that suffered similar disparities in industrial capacity (not to mention energy production) haven't done well in the pas…

Of course we can motivate ourselves. But they're acting like we did in the 1800s through the mid 1900s. They just build anywhere no matter what. They have no interest in dealing with environmental concerns. The officially released pollution levels in China are mind-boggling and they still do not represent how bad it really is. You think US manufacturers wouldn't be delighted to just buy a few hundred acres land and s…

[flagged]

Re: The size of BYD's factory

#220

Post by _carbyau_ »

greenthrow wrote: post #142
matthewdgreen wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great news in the sense that this new energy storage and EV production capacity is (part of) our best chance to avoid catastrophic outcomes from climate change. It's terrifying because we (in the West) can't seem to motivate ourselves to do anything like this on the same timescale, and nations that suffered similar disparities in industrial capacity (not to mention energy production) haven't done well in the pas…

Western country populations seem to be willfully falling for obvious fossil fuel propaganda over and over again. Future generations will rightfully curse our names. (Including today's children.)

Sadly it comes down to "Show me the money."

I vote for change, but I don't have the money to buy electric. Even running costs don't make the difference when it comes to multiple tens of thousands of dollars in purchase price.

I'd love to "care for our environment by buying an electric car". I can't afford to.

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