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Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

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Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#101

Post by mschuster91 »

akira2501 wrote: post #94
morpheuskafka wrote: post #69

I don't like TSA or the US security state, but I really find it hard to see why this has attracted so much attention. When you enter the airport, you're surrounded by cameras from numerous government and commercial entities, no doubt performing facial recognition. When you get to your destination, your photo will be taken by the destination country plus countless other surveillance cameras along the way. And unless y…

You've precisely described the reason I will not fly commercial anymore. All of this surveillance has a chilling effect. On citizens, on business, on international trade. Flying privately requires none of this. Which is how you know they're not serious about security but about control of the masses. Also, the thing you're ignoring, and perhaps why you fail to understand the problem, is you haven't bothered to ask wha…

> Flying privately requires none of this. Which is how you know they're not serious about security but about control of the masses.

In Germany, there is no way you'll get on a commercial airfield without going through security, and if you're not a passenger but an employee or a pilot, you'll need a comprehensive background check.

Only exemption for now is ultralight aircraft because these are about as dangerous as a car (or if you just compare kinetic energy, even less dangerous because they're barely half a ton in weight.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#102

Post by rgrieselhuber »

MarkMarine wrote: post #4

For this to work they must have already done facial recognition on everyone’s ID photos, so I fail to see what opting out even does for me from a privacy perspective. Seems like shutting the barn door after the horse is already out.

It’s a question of normalization, not data.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#103

Post by tehjoker »

casenmgreen wrote: post #78
mu53 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facial recognition systems like this are used everywhere in china. Its common for gates in apartment buildings. Its just how things work there. It feel more malicious to pretend its not happening

The problem is that by this it becomes ever more difficult to get rid of an oppressive, dictatorial, unelected and violent Government.

tbqh, first if the insinuation is that China is not democratic, that is only true in the sense it is not a liberal democracy with a conservative wing represented (a good thing), but it is still a democracy with elections.

secondly, if people surviving a literal genocide in Palestine can resist the most technologically sophisticated, surveilled, and completely enclosed death camp ever constructed by the U.S. and Israel, you can figure out how to deal with cameras.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#104

Post by akira2501 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #101
akira2501 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've precisely described the reason I will not fly commercial anymore. All of this surveillance has a chilling effect. On citizens, on business, on international trade. Flying privately requires none of this. Which is how you know they're not serious about security but about control of the masses. Also, the thing you're ignoring, and perhaps why you fail to understand the problem, is you haven't bothered to ask wha…

> Flying privately requires none of this. Which is how you know they're not serious about security but about control of the masses. In Germany, there is no way you'll get on a commercial airfield without going through security, and if you're not a passenger but an employee or a pilot, you'll need a comprehensive background check. Only exemption for now is ultralight aircraft because these are about as dangerous as a…

> a commercial airfield

Your "commercial airfield" may actually be two airfields in one. This is not uncommon. There is a "commercial" side which is where public carriers usually work and there is a "private" side which is where individuals and often cargo works.

Aside from this there are plenty of private airfields in Germany.

> ultralight aircraft because these are about as dangerous as a car

The cool things about vehicles is you can put things in them. Things like explosives. The incredibly low tech version of this is currently in use in some parts of the world, and that is where you attach a mortar to a drone, then go drop it on a target.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#105

Post by abdullahkhalids »

netsharc wrote: post #12

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".

Pictures are also taken on entry in Canada, at least at Vancouver airport [1]. And obviously getting the visa requires submitting your fingerprints.

[1] https://www.yvr.ca/en/passengers/navigate-yvr/customs-and-im...

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#106

Post by monksy »

bananapub wrote: post #3
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step…

Americans can opt out.

You're talking about the border exit. We're talking about security after checkin.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#107

Post by abdullahkhalids »

aaomidi wrote: post #58
tokai wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just remove TSA. Airport security provides nothing.

So I’ve heard this a lot, but how can we actually test this? The only realistic test I can imagine here is that the TSA shuts down for a decade and we see what happens?

Because other forms of mass travel such as trains and buses, which barely have any security checks, rarely get blown up by bombs smuggled on to them, or hijacked by guns smuggled onto them.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#108

Post by kirubakaran »

akira2501 wrote: post #97
_yb2s wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA will punish you for opting out of anything. If you're lucky, the least they will do is hold you up a long time so you have a good chance of missing your flight. I've also had them sexually harass me, and confiscate (e.g. steal) legal items in retaliation for opting out of things I had the legal right to opt out of. They know people are in a hurry and won't do anything about being treated unethically or illegally,…

The last I was in San Francisco International the TSA staff came barreling out of their door and the first agent out yelled into the terminal, "MAN! I really hope someone opts out today! I can't wait to give that guy a serious patdown." They're trained to operate in an unethical way.

SFO doesn't use TSA

https://www.flysfo.com/about/airport-operations/safety-secur...

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#109

Post by thisisnotauser »

mu53 wrote: post #20
netsharc wrote: post #12

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".

Facial recognition systems like this are used everywhere in china. Its common for gates in apartment buildings. Its just how things work there. It feel more malicious to pretend its not happening

There's a famous saying about Mussolini making the trains run on time. The joke was that anyone who complained about the trains running late, which was an endemic issue emblematic of the financial failures of fascism (his government system), was killed.

But if you didn't complain about the trains, maybe because you didn't take them, you didn't get killed. It was fine.

Maybe things are actually kinda bad, but you're just not willing to admit it to yourself because you aren't complaining about the trains.

In the US, we complain about the trains. And if the gov't is spying on us with facial recognition, we're going to stop them.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#110

Post by EasyMark »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #69

I don't like TSA or the US security state, but I really find it hard to see why this has attracted so much attention. When you enter the airport, you're surrounded by cameras from numerous government and commercial entities, no doubt performing facial recognition. When you get to your destination, your photo will be taken by the destination country plus countless other surveillance cameras along the way. And unless y…

Because they are using more than just a 2d photo, these things are taking almost microscopic details in. I just pay the devil and ask for the personal treatment and skip these things. These are not potato quality and the government isn’t as backward at tech as you think. Remember when you’re dealing with cops there is nothing you can say or do that will be to your advantage in court , the same goes in real life. Skip all of these types of security theater as it’s possible. While I did not want to see the new regime change in Washington because of the high chance of economic and challenges to democracy, one of the things they might cut back on is stuff like this; a Harris admin certainly was not going to be.
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