Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

gizmodo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 236 posts

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#91

Post by monksy »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #69

I don't like TSA or the US security state, but I really find it hard to see why this has attracted so much attention. When you enter the airport, you're surrounded by cameras from numerous government and commercial entities, no doubt performing facial recognition. When you get to your destination, your photo will be taken by the destination country plus countless other surveillance cameras along the way. And unless y…

God I hate this argument and this blunt misunderstanding of computer vision. (I've dealt with it so many times on reddit) Frequently I'm met with these arguments with some imaginative justification for this technology. At this point it's hard to be convinced that the arguements aren't an AstroTurf by security vendors. (Yes dang, I realize this is bad to make this accusation to say but I'm speaking generically and over a large group of people)

Additionally you threw in a false equivalency: But a ton of things are going on..you're useless in fighting it. On top of that you threw in an accusation that "if you don't then face longer lines".

The cameras that are above aren't good enough to do a confident identification of an individual. They're great for tracking where unique blobs go.

The picture they are doing a comparison against is a profile picture and consistent lighting. Additionally the old picture that is on your license is a much older photo. The thread here is that the people who are taking your image now are updating their models and maintaining the models of what you look like. With that they are able to retroactively and perform future lookups on different visual datasources about what you did. (Gas stations, stores, weed shop, adult toy store, walking down the red light district, being on a train, etc)

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#92

Post by monksy »

snakeyjake wrote: post #10
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step…

Generally speaking you present ID to pass through security. The facial recognition is based on the biometric data collected when you got your ID, the ID you presented to pass through security. The ID with your name, address, date of birth, and uniquely identifying number on it. The ID which is associated with your boarding pass. The ID they scan (or they scan the boarding pass which is associated with your ID) prior…

I was with you until "doesn't grant them info that they don't already have." It gives them the opportunity to update their face model of you in a confirmed and consistent manner.

It also doesn't improve anything:

An agent comparison of you vs the id is still considered to be the gold standard. When this system fails, you have to default to the agent's comparison. This is a slow down compared to the previous scenario.

The time for an id comparison isn't the bottleneck in security. It's the physical actions used to go through the TSA and the built in inconsistency to prevent people from speedrunning the screening.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#93

Post by justinclift »

brians wrote: post #42

There is only one sort of person who signs up to check internal passports and search innocent people, and I don’t care what color shirt they’re wearing these days.

> There is only one sort of person who signs up to check internal passports and search innocent people

People needing a job?

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#94

Post by akira2501 »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #69

I don't like TSA or the US security state, but I really find it hard to see why this has attracted so much attention. When you enter the airport, you're surrounded by cameras from numerous government and commercial entities, no doubt performing facial recognition. When you get to your destination, your photo will be taken by the destination country plus countless other surveillance cameras along the way. And unless y…

You've precisely described the reason I will not fly commercial anymore. All of this surveillance has a chilling effect. On citizens, on business, on international trade.

Flying privately requires none of this. Which is how you know they're not serious about security but about control of the masses.

Also, the thing you're ignoring, and perhaps why you fail to understand the problem, is you haven't bothered to ask what the false positive rate is. Would you enjoy being stopped and arrested by very cocksure police simply because a computer made a mistake and they refuse to believe that?

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#95

Post by bastardoperator »

xyst wrote: post #38
_zoltan_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was there and they didn't do an iris scan. Taking a photo and fingerprint is pretty standard everywhere.

The selfie normalized public photography. Travel by plane/DMV applications normalized fingerprinting. What’s next? Semen and blood samples as well? The terrorists have won. Fear has ruled the major powers of the world. And the current major power of the free world is a puppet and an all around idiot.

Too late, I already gave the US government my DNA/reference via blood sample. The military has been doing that since the early 90's.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#96

Post by akira2501 »

paxys wrote: post #75

So a bipartisan group of Senators can write a letter to the TSA speaking out against a policy but not get themselves to bring it to the floor and vote against it? Which is, you know, their actual job? Hard to think of their intentions as anything more than theater for their voter base.

You write a letter and hopefully that solves it.

You then hold a committee meeting and hopefully that solves it.

You finally change federal law and usually that solves it.

If it doesn't you have to start arresting people to foment change.

This is not a gentle tool.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#97

Post by akira2501 »

_yb2s wrote: post #36
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step…

TSA will punish you for opting out of anything. If you're lucky, the least they will do is hold you up a long time so you have a good chance of missing your flight. I've also had them sexually harass me, and confiscate (e.g. steal) legal items in retaliation for opting out of things I had the legal right to opt out of. They know people are in a hurry and won't do anything about being treated unethically or illegally,…

The last I was in San Francisco International the TSA staff came barreling out of their door and the first agent out yelled into the terminal, "MAN! I really hope someone opts out today! I can't wait to give that guy a serious patdown."

They're trained to operate in an unethical way.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#98

Post by monksy »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #2

I was shocked to see this program arrive in my local airport. I opt out every time, but the horrifying thing is that almost everyone simply complies with whatever is asked of them. The TSA agents use phrasing that make it seem like you are supposed to go through the facial recognition process and don’t have a choice. Yes, there are tiny signs scattered around that say you can opt out. But when the officer says “step…

This isn't a casual mistaken. Taking from the newly implemented border exit control that we've gotten. (If you think we don't have one, re-read that) :

The GAO found that the ability for people to understand that Americans are not required to go through the biometric exit was non-existant and the experience of opting out was very poor.

What this means is signage was not posted that indicating for Americans this is an optional process and people forming the "requirement" were not educated that it is optional for citizens.

Yet, the experience is that people forcefully push people into to posing for the camera with markings on the floor, the lack of opting in/consenting to it, and prevent people from being aware of what's going on. (Yes: You can opt out .. walk up to the board area with your passport open to your photo page)

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#99

Post by monksy »

akira2501 wrote: post #97
_yb2s wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA will punish you for opting out of anything. If you're lucky, the least they will do is hold you up a long time so you have a good chance of missing your flight. I've also had them sexually harass me, and confiscate (e.g. steal) legal items in retaliation for opting out of things I had the legal right to opt out of. They know people are in a hurry and won't do anything about being treated unethically or illegally,…

The last I was in San Francisco International the TSA staff came barreling out of their door and the first agent out yelled into the terminal, "MAN! I really hope someone opts out today! I can't wait to give that guy a serious patdown." They're trained to operate in an unethical way.

They're all threats until I walk up to them and actively volunteer. Then it's all "i swear i'm not gay i'm required to touch you near your groin."

The amount of agents who act like that and then start to get shy when you smile and go through with a patdown is pretty comical.

Re: Senators say TSA's facial recognition program is out of control

#100

Post by netsharc »

paulluuk wrote: post #43
netsharc wrote: post #12

When entering China, they take your fingerprints, iris, and I guess face too... I was there in 2019, at one point I was at an airport, and a screen was bragging, "Stand where the camera can see your face, and we'll tell you which way to your gate.". It worked too, the screen displayed my name, flight number and direction to my gate. And implicitly, "We can identify you wherever you are.".

I was in China a few years ago, didn't take fingerprints, iris, or face recognition. Just a routine passport check and that's it. I flew from Europe to Beijing, might be different if you fly from the US.

I was travelling by train from Mongolia/crossed the border by bus because it was cheaper, and when I mean by bus, the bus collects you at the station before the border and drives you to the big border checkpoint building where you cross the border by foot/where they have booths and guards that do the passport and visa checks, just like at an airport.

Maybe I'm misremembering the iris scan. If it did happen, it could be because there were loads of Mongolian students about to embark on their next semester of studies in China.

Post reply on HN