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A career-ending mistake

bitfieldconsulting.com

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Re: A career-ending mistake

#91
post #78

Here's the thing about the average career in big tech: five years after you leave, almost no one will remember you were there . Most of your old team mates will leave for other other jobs. Your code will get refactored or rewritten. Docs will be superseded, then lost in some CMS migration. Before long, it will be as if you have never worked there. I know it sounds preposterous, but ask anyone over the age of 55 or 60…

I have to disagree with your premise. The goal of many software engineers is to build software / systems they can be proud of. They love software and the machines it runs on. Many people here have Arduino projects, 3D printers, home servers, and similar hobbies. A few weeks ago, I was looking for compression algorithms for a particular use case and came across Brotli[0]. I was surprised to learn it was developed by G…

> It's clear that the industry is shifting from being geeky and nerdy to being more business and management focused.

I've heard this same complaint for the last 30 years, probably starting with this - Bret Hart helps you debug a null pointer dereference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSmKiws-4NU

Re: A career-ending mistake

#92

> Most managers are terrible. A sweeping statement indeed, but it does reflect my experience too. Perhaps it's my ingrained deference to authority - when I start a new position I tend to believe that my manager has my best interests at heart. This is a mistake and I now believe it's better to maintain a kind of defensive attitude and to always be assertive in establishing, and if necessary negotiating, the responsibi…

People rise to their level of incompetence[1]. This simple principle explains most managers completely.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Re: A career-ending mistake

#93

Here's the thing about the average career in big tech: five years after you leave, almost no one will remember you were there . Most of your old team mates will leave for other other jobs. Your code will get refactored or rewritten. Docs will be superseded, then lost in some CMS migration. Before long, it will be as if you have never worked there. I know it sounds preposterous, but ask anyone over the age of 55 or 60…

I am 67, and equestria is mostly correct. I still get great satisfaction from my tech career, but sure, friends and family matter more. This story involves some work I did that did not bring me satisfaction.

I worked at my first consumer-oriented tech company, right after the dotcom crash. It was a really unexciting interlude in my career. I was given the job of writing the database and Java representation of credit/debit cards, and the related business logic. As often happens, the code grew over time, as requirements and card types were added. And it was finally time for a rewrite, and this code became a poster child for technical debt.

Startup activity resumed, and I left for a far more interesting startup.

Then, maybe 15 years later, I was retired, and doing consulting, and ran into a friend from the company, who told me that a new company doing something very similar, and was looking for help. I go in and talk to them, and discover that they actually licensed the software from my former company. Including my long-in-the-tooth credit/debit/xyz-card software. The code was still completely recognizable, disturbingly so. It lived on far past the point that it should have.

I decided to not take the consulting job. I really did not relish the idea of going back to this very forgettable and uninteresting code. But most importantly, I had just retired, and wanted to spend my summer on a lake, not keeping this code alive a bit longer.

Re: A career-ending mistake

#94

Here's the thing about the average career in big tech: five years after you leave, almost no one will remember you were there . Most of your old team mates will leave for other other jobs. Your code will get refactored or rewritten. Docs will be superseded, then lost in some CMS migration. Before long, it will be as if you have never worked there. I know it sounds preposterous, but ask anyone over the age of 55 or 60…

Your argument, while valid, also kind of misses the point of the original post: to know where your career ends, you also have to know what the general trajectory looks like. Basically, you cannot "coast" ever upward "naturally" anymore, because we've learned that's a bad concept (hence the term "failing up").

We pressure people into management roles who have no reason being there other than "that's where more money is" or "that's how you create change". If someone's "end state" is a highly competent and flexible IC, then why isn't there more money for them to continue succeeding at that role as compared to an ineffective manager? For all the talk that tech is a meritocracy, it obviously isn't, otherwise we'd be rewarding the best talent without forcing them into bad roles or hollow titles.

Motivations aren't restricted to money alone, either, as we've seen post-pandemic with the WFH-RTO conflicts. A plurality of workers have realized their time is more valuable than their work, and are refusing to take chump change for multi-hour commutes from affordable suburbs just because their employer is arbitrarily demanding butts-in-seats in a pricey city. Others want their employers to be more involved in politics, or at least acknowledge that choosing to be a for-profit business is in fact a political statement in and of itself; hiding behind faux-neutrality in times of crisis isn't sufficient response anymore. The times are a changing, and the workforce is increasingly making its frustrations known.

Which brings me to your last paragraph:

> ...for most techies, the most useful goal is to make money fast in a way that doesn't drain your life energy.

I would like to proudly stand up as one of those not in that "most techies" crowd. I do this work because it comes easy to me, is incredibly interesting, and allows me to work in infrastructure in a way that isn't building roads or laying pipe. I identified my career ending way back in High School: acting as the jack-of-all-trades IT guy for the school or district, grey hair and hoarse voice, gradually nerd-sniping the kids who, like I was, are bored out of their skulls and looking for a challenge. The money certainly helps (even if it's not nearly enough to buy a home close to the office), but my career begins and ends in ultimately the same place.

And that's the point of the post: identifying where your career ends, and the arc it takes to get there. It's why I'm doing the leadership courses and trying to beat a new path upward in the corporate world, one where highly-competent ICs who are also good leaders are recognized as such and put into long-term positions within an organization, to weather the storm of cyclic leaders and fickle shareholders, and ultimately build a stronger, successful, and sustainable entity as a result. I need those years/decades of leadership and money to reach that position where I have a paid-off home, decent retirement savings, and can finally dedicate my remaining time and talent toward building a better future for the next-generation of people.

Re: A career-ending mistake

#96
The mistake I see people make it _not_ ending their career out of narcissism, pride, ego, etc.

I am not a religious person but it is good to remember you will die. You should have some better stuff to put on your tombstone than your job title.

People aren't going to care who you were in 100 years and people aren't going to remember you in 1000 years. Your tombstone will crumble in the dirt.

Spend time with people you love, spend time with your family and friends. Find meaning without economic strings attached.

Re: A career-ending mistake

#97
post #78

Here's the thing about the average career in big tech: five years after you leave, almost no one will remember you were there . Most of your old team mates will leave for other other jobs. Your code will get refactored or rewritten. Docs will be superseded, then lost in some CMS migration. Before long, it will be as if you have never worked there. I know it sounds preposterous, but ask anyone over the age of 55 or 60…

I have to disagree with your premise. The goal of many software engineers is to build software / systems they can be proud of. They love software and the machines it runs on. Many people here have Arduino projects, 3D printers, home servers, and similar hobbies. A few weeks ago, I was looking for compression algorithms for a particular use case and came across Brotli[0]. I was surprised to learn it was developed by G…

> The goal of many software engineers is to build software / systems they can be proud of.

Maybe for people <30. Priorities change very fast, as you age. I’ve met a good chunk of very talented engineers through work and other venues who acknowledged that they stopped caring after some point.

Re: A career-ending mistake

#98
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no code-review process for management decisions. Management is essentially like writing code on the production server all the time. The stakes are maybe a little lower, it's a good bit harder to make disastrous mistakes, but there's no real roll-back or testing for if you're about to ruin your team.

But why isn’t there a code review process for management decisions? What if code was how decisions were recorded ? What if companies were programmable ?

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

That is, you can ask hypothetical what ifs all you like, but unless you have a concrete plan for getting there, you're just writing fantasies.

And, management decisions get reviewed before implementation all the time. It's just not a code review, precisely because management decisions are not code.

Why aren't they code? Because people aren't computers. If you're going to treat them like they are computers, then I don't want to work in your company.

Re: A career-ending mistake

#99

The mistake I see people make it _not_ ending their career out of narcissism, pride, ego, etc. I am not a religious person but it is good to remember you will die. You should have some better stuff to put on your tombstone than your job title. People aren't going to care who you were in 100 years and people aren't going to remember you in 1000 years. Your tombstone will crumble in the dirt. Spend time with people you…

Oh and by the way: you might die sooner than you think. It happens all the time. Are you spending time the way you want?

Re: A career-ending mistake

#100

> Most managers are terrible. A sweeping statement indeed, but it does reflect my experience too. Perhaps it's my ingrained deference to authority - when I start a new position I tend to believe that my manager has my best interests at heart. This is a mistake and I now believe it's better to maintain a kind of defensive attitude and to always be assertive in establishing, and if necessary negotiating, the responsibi…

OTOH, this can be a case of the "if everyone around you is a jerk, the jerk is really you" rule. If you can't work well with any manager the common denominator is you. It's also the only thing you can change.

This. I’ve known many an engineer who thinks their manager is bad because they don’t do what this IC (who has never been a manager or knows that is happening at the company above them) would do. The kind of people who think Elon is a bad CEO. Results are what matters first and foremost in tech
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