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Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

theguardian.com

41–50 of 121 posts

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#41

It seems that these days academia is mostly garbage for anyone who wants things like money, family or a healthy work-life balance.

I think traditionally it was for people who were unmarried. Hence its connection to the church. So expecting enough to raise a family is a relatively new idea.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#42

Higher education doesn’t want to shed its clergy status. It’s like they can’t figure out if education is truly a pure pursuit or just this crazy godly thing that is priceless but somehow has this exorbitant real world price that the clergy seems to value … They sell indulgences at this point, and I don’t think it’s a false analogy. Holier than thou institution where everyone must pay the price for their product or be…

"Selling indulgence" is a bit of gross generalisation though. Getting a medicine or technical degree from a top-tier university does prepare you technically for a very technically demanding job. Whatever replacement you imagine for this phase of such occupations will end up reinventing something very similar to university. Do you imagine people should jump straight into these occupations without undergoing some kind of training/testing that they reached a certain level of technical understanding of their occupation?

The problem is that many universities have accreted huge management layers and some non-sensical degrees but this is not unique to universities.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#43
post #11

What do you mean "accused of"? This has been the official and government-wanted policy for years in some countries, so much so that there are specific laws that ensure young academics by default cannot expect a long-term career in academia.

Yup. They deliberately overload the front of the pipeline. It can attract smart people from overseas and also save plenty of money. They usually openly argue that the university's job is training for the rest of the economy so it only makes sense that they don't have enough long-term positions for people.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#44

Higher education doesn’t want to shed its clergy status. It’s like they can’t figure out if education is truly a pure pursuit or just this crazy godly thing that is priceless but somehow has this exorbitant real world price that the clergy seems to value … They sell indulgences at this point, and I don’t think it’s a false analogy. Holier than thou institution where everyone must pay the price for their product or be…

[flagged]

New? The churches created many of the oldest universities and many of them had a job of training future preachers. It's not a new idea.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#45
post #42

Higher education doesn’t want to shed its clergy status. It’s like they can’t figure out if education is truly a pure pursuit or just this crazy godly thing that is priceless but somehow has this exorbitant real world price that the clergy seems to value … They sell indulgences at this point, and I don’t think it’s a false analogy. Holier than thou institution where everyone must pay the price for their product or be…

"Selling indulgence" is a bit of gross generalisation though. Getting a medicine or technical degree from a top-tier university does prepare you technically for a very technically demanding job. Whatever replacement you imagine for this phase of such occupations will end up reinventing something very similar to university. Do you imagine people should jump straight into these occupations without undergoing some kind…

I’m not really beating around the bush. A university cannot normalize the prices of all of their majors around outlier majors that have more market demand. They cannot also bundle a “premium” package of the college experience (which evidently now involves indentured servitude, which I’m guessing comes after premium room and board pricing?). Check the whole bill, everything is out of whack.

Drop the prices of 90% of majors, that one should be obvious.

Sharing the wealth should be obvious too, but that one isn’t either apparently. So they overcharge, and then don’t pay their own.

It’s massive pricing issue mired in severe levels of piety and self importance. No one wants to replace universities, they want them to stop scamming.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#46
was doing exactly that a few years ago as Postdoc at Oxford. Yes, the pay is very low, but those who do that (PhD students and Postdocs) do it to get some valuable teaching experience more than for the money. The amount of hours they give for such temporary assignemnts is very little per individual, or at least that's what I saw among my colleagues.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Selling indulgence" is a bit of gross generalisation though. Getting a medicine or technical degree from a top-tier university does prepare you technically for a very technically demanding job. Whatever replacement you imagine for this phase of such occupations will end up reinventing something very similar to university. Do you imagine people should jump straight into these occupations without undergoing some kind…

I’m not really beating around the bush. A university cannot normalize the prices of all of their majors around outlier majors that have more market demand. They cannot also bundle a “premium” package of the college experience (which evidently now involves indentured servitude, which I’m guessing comes after premium room and board pricing?). Check the whole bill, everything is out of whack. Drop the prices of 90% of m…

I am arguing this is mostly explained by universities being taken over mba-type managers: launching new products (i.e non-sensical degrees), turning university study into an "experience", ... is all the sort of thing that mba type do and not unique to university (see Boing, Intel, ...)

But the core idea of university remains as sound and essential to a well-functioning society as it gets. From time immemorial you needed gatekeepers to recognised professions who: a) provide hands-on training to the next generation b) certify that a trainer has reached a sufficient level of mastery to practice the profession. Calling this process "selling indulgence" is my issue with your argument.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#48

It seems that these days academia is mostly garbage for anyone who wants things like money, family or a healthy work-life balance.

Or even research experience. In many fields industry is now years ahead and academia lacks the funds and the man power to compete. AI and biotech are two examples.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#49

Higher education doesn’t want to shed its clergy status. It’s like they can’t figure out if education is truly a pure pursuit or just this crazy godly thing that is priceless but somehow has this exorbitant real world price that the clergy seems to value … They sell indulgences at this point, and I don’t think it’s a false analogy. Holier than thou institution where everyone must pay the price for their product or be…

This comment and the whole tread are completely surreal. What clergy status, exactly? The second paragraph makes absolutely no sense, either.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#50
Universities are basically farms these days. They harvest funding from the research councils. Similar working practices and economic factors!

Edit: I mean the research portion of course. The teaching part is more of a classic multi-level marketing scheme.

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