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Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

theguardian.com

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Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#31

Post by insane_dreamer »

is this news? this sounds like every university in the US, which uses underpaid adjuncts to do most of the teaching and underpaid phd candidates and postdocs to do most of the research

not saying this is right -- adjuncts and postdocs absolutely need to be paid more commensurately with the value they provide -- but it has been the status quo for a long time; the bigger problem is that it used to be a temporary stepping stone to professorship, whereas now universities are perpetually and increasingly relying on this cheap labor to cut costs, making the path for academia an increasingly tortuous one. It's highly counter productive because who wants to go through all that instead if you can get a job in industry that values you much more? The result is that you don't get the best and brightest educating the next generation, except maybe at a few universities - Oxford, Stanford, Harvard, MIT, etc. - where the prestige itself is enough of a draw.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#33

Post by graemep »

MrMcCall wrote: post #16
bloomingkales wrote: post #5

Higher education doesn’t want to shed its clergy status. It’s like they can’t figure out if education is truly a pure pursuit or just this crazy godly thing that is priceless but somehow has this exorbitant real world price that the clergy seems to value … They sell indulgences at this point, and I don’t think it’s a false analogy. Holier than thou institution where everyone must pay the price for their product or be…

Well put, and that's a good part of the reason they're going the way of the Catholic Church. That said, I'd call it an 'aristocracy' instead. But, tomato/tomahto, ya know?

Both British universities (I do not know about globally) and the Catholic Church have expanded rapidly in recent decades.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#34

Post by graemep »

motohagiography wrote: post #10

what do the people who make and manage money learn, and could clever people be taught this skill too? maybe instead of spending their afternoons on the golf course like wealth managers they could pursue research and teach. how difficult could it be?

Because money does not come out of nowhere.

A lot of people make money from zero sum games, or from things with a small positive sum socially (e.g. selling something for a little bit less than someone else).

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#35

Post by dagw »

newsclues wrote: post #21
bloomingkales wrote: post #5

Higher education doesn’t want to shed its clergy status. It’s like they can’t figure out if education is truly a pure pursuit or just this crazy godly thing that is priceless but somehow has this exorbitant real world price that the clergy seems to value … They sell indulgences at this point, and I don’t think it’s a false analogy. Holier than thou institution where everyone must pay the price for their product or be…

[flagged]

'Academics' probably have less trust and authority among the general public today than they've ever had. They're as a far away from the priest class of old as you could get.

Truth was replaced with authority

This is probably closer to the mark, but authority no longer rests with academics.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#37

Post by alephnerd »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #25
jltsiren wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a postdoc in Cambridge, the problem was that there were too many PhD students and postdocs who wanted to teach. Not because of the compensation but for the experience. A lot of people wanted to try a career in the academia, and they needed teaching experience for that. But there were not enough undergraduates for them all to teach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJEmE7IYoLk Summary: colleges are way too selective today at the high end. Boomers got into elite schools far more easily, although there were less schools. It's a bit of a disingenuous argument however, because the huge increase of schools down the long long LONG pecking order of school "eliteness". But the boomer thing is spot on.

> It's a bit of a disingenuous argument however, because the huge increase of schools down the long long LONG pecking order of school "eliteness"

Ehn, it really doesn't.

Harvard admits significantly less undergrads than Penn or Columbia, and in personal experience, the "Ivy" cachet doesn't really help that much in most industries outside of High Finance (which itself tends to targets Penn+Columbia instead of Harvard). Harvard was historically overrepresented in MBB+Management Consulting, but that industry is dying now that Accountancies and Implementation firms are bundling MC, and companies increasingly do strategy in-house.

Prestige is a finicky thing. 30 years ago UChicago was not viewed as "prestigious" compared to Harvard (it was Claremont McKenna with snow back then), but ask high schoolers today and UChicago has a strong brand value.

Also, ime, I just don't bump into Harvard grads anymore at high level positions (Director and above). Harvard historically overindexed on MBB and Boutique Consulting recruiting while Penn+Columbia targeted Wall Street and Stanford+Cal targeted Sand Hill and YC. Consulting slowly started withering away, so recruiting is tough.

That said, Harvard does very well in China (largely thanks to John Fairbanks and Roderick MacFarquhar in the 1970s-90s), but they aren't as driven as UPenn has been in trying to diversify their international presence.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#38

Post by ta988 »

graemep wrote: post #33
MrMcCall wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put, and that's a good part of the reason they're going the way of the Catholic Church. That said, I'd call it an 'aristocracy' instead. But, tomato/tomahto, ya know?

Both British universities (I do not know about globally) and the Catholic Church have expanded rapidly in recent decades.

Like a star near the end of its life.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#39

Post by hgomersall »

MrMcCall wrote: post #14
burnt-resistor wrote: post #13

A reader may also be "shocked and appalled" that research universities like Stanford abused employees by keeping them "part-time" for years at a time to cheat them out of benefits received by FTEs.

Stanford has a business school, doesn't it?

Not quite sure what point you're making, but it brings to mind what my academic friend often says which is that the economic faculty staff are the worst when it comes to contributing to the general tasks the whole set of academic staff has to do. It's almost like they feel the need to justify their constant advocating that being a shitty person is the rational thing to do, but of course it only ever works because other people pick up the chores.

Re: Oxford accused of relying on young academics employed on gig-economy terms

#40

Post by njjnjj »

rwyinuse wrote: post #27

It seems that these days academia is mostly garbage for anyone who wants things like money, family or a healthy work-life balance.

Throwaway account. Yes that is exactly what happened to me. Figured I'd do a PhD so took a research / part time teaching position after masters. Terrible money, demanding job, knee deep in politics. After about 12 months I said fuck it and went and got a job for 4x the money and a 35 hour week. No regrets.
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