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'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

thetimes.com

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Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#51

Post by sigmoid10 »

albertojacini wrote: post #31
MezzoDelCammin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea behind energy shaming is that energy price rarely includes its externalities (probably resources depletion and pollution). "If You buy it, You do what You want with it" is of course legally correct. But I think the argument they're trying to make subconsciously in is that there's someone else who will have to pay part of the price for it.

Can be true, but it applies to Disneyland as well.

But if you're a conservative cynic about Disneyland, people will just label you as some old sad geezer with outdated opinions yelling at kids playing in the garden. You have to hate on something new and trendy to keep up your consumer focus group engagement metrics these days.

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#52

Post by ttyprintk »

MrMcCall wrote: post #8
comboy wrote: post #3

Not sure if that' more than a person sitting in the office writing this when you take into account all electricity used by the building, maintenance, other people (catering cleaning etc.) And I think this energy-shaming whether that's AI crypto or something else is just a wrong approach. If somebody buys energy he can use it for mindless entertainment if he so pleases, why focus on datacenters and not Disneyland?

ChatGPT is not housing anyone, nor is it providing office space. Even Disneyland is at least providing joy for children and adults.

But this article wants to talk about unnecessary office cooling without talking about unnecessary offices. If this is such a big deal, then why aren’t office parks springing up in the arctic?

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#53

Post by MrMcCall »

p2detar wrote: post #13

From the article: > Using the chatbot for between ten to 50 queries consumes about two litres of water, according to experts from the University of California, Riverside. From ChatGPT: > A single BTC transaction consumes approximately 1,000–1,500 kWh of electricity, with cooling processes for fossil fuel and nuclear power plants using about 2–3 liters of water per kWh. This translates to an indirect water consumption…

Here's the reality: just because a lot of people are doing something, it doesn't mean thay're not sunk-cost fools.

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#54

Post by MrMcCall »

shakow wrote: post #44
p2detar wrote: post #13

From the article: > Using the chatbot for between ten to 50 queries consumes about two litres of water, according to experts from the University of California, Riverside. From ChatGPT: > A single BTC transaction consumes approximately 1,000–1,500 kWh of electricity, with cooling processes for fossil fuel and nuclear power plants using about 2–3 liters of water per kWh. This translates to an indirect water consumption…

How is it a “consumption” (in either case) if the water is basically just running through a pipe and released a couple miles down the line/evaporated into the atmosphere without being polluted?

We're having a global heating problem, so the water use is just a symptom of our systemic abuse of the planet's resources.

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#55

Post by MrMcCall »

aszantu wrote: post #42

If you build the datacenter by the sea or floating, you could combine the cooling with desalination

"If my aunt had a d_ck, she'd be my uncle." --Louisiana saying

I like your idea, but there's no patience or monetary motivation to postpone the energy use until more sane facilities are built.

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#56

Post by erinaceousjones »

stavros wrote: post #35
MrMcCall wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do coal-fired power plants. So does our endless production of plastic waste and our ever-growing landfills. So does all our fossil-fuel use. Where is it all taking us, friend? Most people are not honest enough with themself to understand the bigger picture, nor are they selfless enough to give a darn to sacrifice something of their own benefit to help the whole.

Yes, let's all kill ourselves and save resources!

...You know there's some options between "capitalism optimising for profit margins leads to unchecked consumption of resources" and "everyone has to die", right?

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#57

Post by MrMcCall »

lambdaba wrote: post #50
comboy wrote: post #3

Not sure if that' more than a person sitting in the office writing this when you take into account all electricity used by the building, maintenance, other people (catering cleaning etc.) And I think this energy-shaming whether that's AI crypto or something else is just a wrong approach. If somebody buys energy he can use it for mindless entertainment if he so pleases, why focus on datacenters and not Disneyland?

Claude estimates the average American consumes about 3800 liters of water per day counting all the food inputs (Claude only drank half a cup for this answer).

You did not count the gathering of data and then training the LLM.

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#58

Post by MrMcCall »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #34
MrMcCall wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are far more energically efficient than a data center. Wetware >>> software

I really am not. I just drank 1 liter of water. ChatGPT consumed several orders of magnitude less doing much more than me. I also just heated up my meal, with meat and fries. ChatGPT didn't need that. All of that while walking around my apartment full of various "useless" stuff. ChatGPT doesn't care.

You're not counting the training of the LLM.

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#59

Post by stavros »

erinaceousjones wrote: post #56
stavros wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let's all kill ourselves and save resources!

...You know there's some options between "capitalism optimising for profit margins leads to unchecked consumption of resources" and "everyone has to die", right?

Yes, in the way that there are differences in pollution between using coal-fired plants and using LLMs.

Re: 'Thirsty' ChatGPT uses four times more water than previously thought

#60

Post by lambdaba »

MrMcCall wrote: post #57
lambdaba wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claude estimates the average American consumes about 3800 liters of water per day counting all the food inputs (Claude only drank half a cup for this answer).

You did not count the gathering of data and then training the LLM.

Inference consumes far more total compute than training the model.
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