Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not how it works. First, revenue is irrelevant. Second, the investment isn't a loan that they need to repay. They are getting equity. Third, Anthropic is exclusively using AWS to train its models. Which, yes, means if AWS gives them $4B and it costs them $500M/year to pay for AWS services then after 8 years, the cash is a wash. However this ignores the second point. Fourth, there is brand association for some…
The difference between things you'd say like "it's true that..." and "the market will associate..." basically is the definition of a scam.
Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
151–160 of 383 posts
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#152They certainly need the money. The Pro service has been running in limited mode all week due to being over capacity. It defaults to “concise” mode during high capacity but Pro users can select to put it back into “Full Response.” But I can tell the quality drops even when you do that, and it fails and brings up error messages more commonly. They don’t have enough compute to go around.
I am a paying customer with credits and the API endpoints rate-limited me to the point where it's actually unusable as a coding assistant. I use a VS Code extension and it just bailed out in the middle of a migration. I had to revert everything it changed and that was not a pleasant experience, sadly.
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not how it works. First, revenue is irrelevant. Second, the investment isn't a loan that they need to repay. They are getting equity. Third, Anthropic is exclusively using AWS to train its models. Which, yes, means if AWS gives them $4B and it costs them $500M/year to pay for AWS services then after 8 years, the cash is a wash. However this ignores the second point. Fourth, there is brand association for some…
> Sixth, AWS doesn't have its own LLM (relative to Meta, MS, etc.). The market will associate Claude with Amazon now. Amazon/AWS has their line of Titan LLMs: https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/titan/
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
I think its fair to say this is also a hedging strategy then.
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is one reason closed models suck. You can't tell if the bad responses are due to something you are doing, or if the company you are paying to generate the responses is cutting corners and looking for efficiencies, eg by reducing the number of bits. It is a black box.
To be fair even if you did know it would still behave the same way.
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Control your own inference endpoints.
Could you explain more on how to do this? e.g if I am using the Claude API in my service, how would you suggest I go about setting up and controlling my own inference endpoint?
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes but Amazon is not making extra money with you being their biggest customer With Anthropic yes
Anthropic is getting $4B in investment in a year where their revenue was about $850M. Even if Amazon had bought them outright for that much, they would not be ahead. The fact that everybody keeps repeating the claim that Amazon is "making money" makes this appear like some kind of scam.
This is essentially money that they would have spent to build out their cloud anyway, except now they also get equity in Anthropic. Whether or not Anthropic survives, AWS gets to keep all of those expensive GPUs and sell them to other customers so their medium/long term opportunity cost is small. Even if the deal includes cheaper rates the hardware still amortizes over 2-3 years, and cloud providers are running plenty of 5+ year old GPUs so there's lots of money to be made in the long tail (as long as ML demand keeps up).
They're not making money yet because there's the $4 billion opportunity cost, but even if their equity in Anthropic drops to zero, they're probably still going to make a profit on the deal. If the equity is worth something, they'll make significantly more money than they could have renting servers. Throw financial engineering on top of that, and they may come out far ahead regardless of what happens to Anthropic: Schedule K capital equipment amortizations are treated differently from investments and AFAICT they can double dip since Anthropic is going to spend most of it on cloud (IANAL). That's likely why this seems to be cash investment instead of in-kind credits.
I think that’s what people mean when they say Amazon is making money off the deal. It’s not an all or nothing VC investment that requires a 2-3x exit to be profitable because the money just goes back to AWS’s balance sheet.
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've had it refuse to generate a long text response (I was trying to concise a 300kb documentation to 20-30kb to be able to put it in the project's context), and every time I asked it replied "How should structure the results ?", "Shall I go ahead with writing the artifacts now ?", etc. It wasn't even during the over-capacity event I don't think, and I'm a pro user.
Hate to be that guy, but did you tell it up front not to ask? And, of course, in a long-running conversation it's important not to leave such questions in the context.
It sparks me as odd, because I've had quite a few times where it would generate me a response over multiple messages (since it was hitting its max message length) without any second-guessing or issue.
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmmm... I wonder if this is why some of the results I've gotten over the past few days have been pretty bad. It's easy to dismiss poor results on LLM quality variance from prompt to prompt vs. something like this where the quality is actively degraded without notification. I can't say this is in fact what I'm experience, but it was noticeable enough I'm going to check.
Never occurred to me that the response changes based on load. I’ve definitely noticed it seems smarter at times. Makes evaluating results nearly impossible.
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#159They certainly need the money. The Pro service has been running in limited mode all week due to being over capacity. It defaults to “concise” mode during high capacity but Pro users can select to put it back into “Full Response.” But I can tell the quality drops even when you do that, and it fails and brings up error messages more commonly. They don’t have enough compute to go around.
I’ve been using the API for a few weeks and routinely get 529 overloaded messages. I wasn’t sure if that’s always been the case but it certainly makes it unsuitable for production workloads because it will last hours at a time. Hopefully they can add the capacity needed because it’s a lot better than GPT-4o for my intended use case.
The only reason I still use OpenAI's API and chatbot service is o1-preview. o1 is like magic. Everything Sonnet and 4o do poorly, o1 solves like a piece of cake. Architecting, bug fixing, planning, refactoring, o1 has never let me know on any 'hard' task.
A nice combo is have o1 guiding Sonnet. I ask o1 to come up with a solution and explanation, then simply feed its response into Sonnet to execute. That running on Aider really feels like futuristic stuff.
Re: Amazon to invest another $4B in Anthropic
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Win the developers over and the rest will follow. Will they really? Anecdotal evidence, but nobody I know in real life knows about Claude (other than it's an ordinary first name). And they all use or at least know about ChatGPT. None of them are software engineers of course. But the corporate deciders aren't software engineers either.
Most people I know in real life have certainly heard of ChatGPT but don't pay for it. I think someone enthusiastic enough to pay for the subscription is more likely to be willing to try a rival service, but that's not most people. Usually when these services are ready to grow they offer a month or more free to try, at least that's what Google has been doing with their Gemini bundle.
Search for bing, get to work.