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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#901

Post by raxxorraxor »

helge9210 wrote: post #897
mikae1 wrote: post #884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did they really think that when they talk Hebrew to their audience, rest of the world does not hear them. Case like this would be harder to prosecute without evidence of intent. What are you talking about here? Link?

He referred to Palestinians as Amalek. Since there are not many Hebrew books written over the centuries (for obvious reasons), modern literature is heavily relying on religious texts for metaphors and analogues. Calling someone Amalek is a call for genocide.

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#902

Post by raxxorraxor »

ceejayoz wrote: post #647
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably if they get invited to Europe it will be with assurance from the state that nothing happens to them. And traveling uninvited is probably a bad move anyway. So not much difference. If you mean to imply that Europe is somehow going to shoot down their planes if they fly over that’s obviously absurd.

> If you mean to imply that Europe is somehow going to shoot down their planes if they fly over that’s obviously absurd. Shoot down? No. Force them down? There's precedent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#903

Post by lolc »

YZF wrote: post #889
sudosysgen wrote: post #885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard isn't harm, it's war crimes. There is clear evidence that Israel deliberately withheld food and medicine from civilians in a calculated manner, which is a war crime that no one is alleging in the fight against ISIS.

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> Population that refuses to evacuate,

The people in Gaza have no options to move.

> Why is this all on Israel?

Because the IDF occupy the area.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#904

Post by sumedh »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #901
helge9210 wrote: post #897

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He referred to Palestinians as Amalek. Since there are not many Hebrew books written over the centuries (for obvious reasons), modern literature is heavily relying on religious texts for metaphors and analogues. Calling someone Amalek is a call for genocide.

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#905

Post by blitzar »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #820
Animats wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

One thing I've learned these past 20 years: when an awful political leader seems to obviously be undergoing a downfall and on their way out of power, you can be sure they'll be there 20 years later. And they'll outlive all of us too, even if they're already geriatric.

> when an awful political leader seems to obviously be undergoing a downfall and on their way out of power

whenever this is happening there is a war

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#906

Post by blitzar »

woooooo wrote: post #764
anon291 wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was never a 'rules-based world order'. We live purely in Pax Americana and every government exists at the pleasure of the United States. If the US wanted to, and if it did it correctly, it could easily conquer most countries. Afghanistan happened because America lost the will, not the ability. Had America gone the normal colonial route, Afghanistan would look a lot different today.

The UK at their peak and also Russia, twice, tried the "normal colonial route" in Afghanistan..

Geography is the problem not technology.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#907

Post by rixed »

rixed wrote: post #692

As a European, I find the reactions from the US politicians as related in this Al-Jazeera article quite choking : https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/21/how-us-politicians... But maybe biased though. Anyone would have a link to some more nuanced statements with officials who do not sounds just like thugs?

Replying to the "dead" comment below (I wish HN killed only spam comments):

> Mainly because i feel the rest of the world lives in a Disneyland like state of fake security that is guaranteed by the United States and never has to contend with the actual reality of the world.

> The actual realities of statehood say the ICC is a joke.

> As for your contention of thuggery.. again, referencing my Disneyland allegation... Thuggery is the basis of statehood and if that makes you uncomfortable, it's because you've been raised in Pax Americana.

> It's really time most countries started paying tribute to the United States, but I do understand the strategic benefit of magnanimity.

I get this viewpoint. Basically, the idea is that humans can only exist as a society of thugs, and everything else is just fairy tales. In that theory, the best possible outcome is achieved when one of the thugs is much more powerfull than all others, thus enforcing "some" order. Therefore, we should all pay tribute to it. I have issues with that theory though. Firstly, I do not believe it. Secondly, even if I did I would consider it a moral duty to still fight it for the small chance it's false. A finally, it does not say what to do in a situation like today when the former bigger thug is becoming weaker and is challenged by the competition. Are we supposed to wait patiently underground the next 20 years until the next contender takes the throne?

There is another theory, according to which human societies _evolve_ as any organism do. It can actually be shown that humans did tame themselves, and became less aggressive/more cooperative after tens of thousands of years of living cooperatively, first in small scale then in larger and larger scale. I take everyone's repulsion against the current state of affairs, or against any sociopathic bahavior for that matter, as another hint of this.

We _did_ evolve out of a primitive condition where there was no conceivable human made law or justice into a society where the rule of law was just a trick, into a condition where the rule of law was desirable, and possibly one day into a condition where the rule of law appears natural.

I believe the cynical viewpoint that you expressed, and that I share sometimes when my mood is low, is actually the fantasy.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#908

Post by dotancohen »

Myrmornis wrote: post #850
dotancohen wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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No, the Israeli military was destroying materiel stored in civilian homes. Unfortunately people lost their homes when that materiel was destroyed.

Who do you blame: Israel for destroying the rockets before Hamas shoots them, or Hamas for storing them in civilian infrastructure?

I will remind you that Hamas has been shooting these rockets continually at Israel for over a decade. And Israel rarely took the initiative to proactively destroy the rockets stored in homes until this war started.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#909

Post by throw310822 »

throw_pm23 wrote: post #690
magic_hamster wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel was massively radicalized by October 7th. Prior to October 7th, a lot of Israelis believed that if Palestinians had a better economy and could afford a comfortable life, peace would be possible. October 7th was not just a surprise to many Israelis, but also the atrocities were so horrible that it radically changed how Israelis view the situation. This is hard to grasp, but a lot of people don't really understa…

It is telling that you also mention "better economy" and "comfortable life", but not "equal rights" or "self-government" or any such thing. Even with animals in the zoo one doesn't think that all they need is being well-fed.

This talk of "better economy" and "comfortable life" is pure self-deception on the part of Israelis. They liked to think that they would like peace with the Palestinians, while at the same time making no significant objection to their country implementing an apartheid regime and building settlements and imprisoning millions under an airtight blockade.

Such is the level of self-deception that they are genuinely surprised and angry each time the Palestinians hit back- they see these as unprovoked- worse, ungrateful- attacks.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#910

Post by atoav »

YZF wrote: post #891
aguaviva wrote: post #883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war is against Hamas not against Palestinians Of course it's not against the Palestinians, per se. It's a war against their continued presence on portions of Greater Israel that his party and his people would like to further colonize. There's also the current operation involving his former "asset" and strategic partner, Hamas. With whom it seems he's had a falling out of sorts, and as a result, his people got mas…

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> The majority of Israeli would like to find some sort of win win solution where everyone can live in peace. The majority of Palestinians don't see any solution that includes Jewish people living in the region.

[citation needed] Because your equivalent on the other side would say it is exactly the other way around, and both of you would feel unarguably right. So unless you base your claim here on a neutral trusted source I would file that away as someone's gut feeling that may be part of a political bubble.

Your palestinian counterpart could point out the same, as far as I know more than three quarters of the palestinians alive today did not vote for Hamas, since they were kids when that vote took place in 2006. Your Palestinian counterpart could point to the fact that their people are unarguably more restricted than an Israeli citizen living in the same area or to the fact that their territories got smaller over the decades which is surprising given your statement about a lack of Isreali ambition to drive them away — did the Palestinians voluntarily gift that land away or how did that happen?

Now sure, in reality this conflict is much more complex, and the history of the Palestinian territories has to do with repression, terrorist responses, constant military intervention, settler ambition and so on. But if — in effect — you drive the other people out, even if "you don't want to", you are driving them out, period. And for that you just have to look at a timeline of the border over the history of the region, without bothering yourself about all complexity, which in this conflict is abused by both sides as an excuse.

Todays younger generations in the West perceive Israel as the stronger force (and it is) and as such feel that Isreal has a moral duty to de-escalate the conflict. Now that 80% of the Gaza strips population is displaced and this is the conflict with the most dead children than any other recent conflict¹, taking about not wanting to drive them away seams a tad bit cynical — one could infer from that they are not to be driven away, but to be erradicated.

In any way this will mark the sad point in history where the decline of support for Isreals ambitions in the West started and Isreal won't even see it coming, since their own perspective on the conflict is skewed by their own propaganda. A support Isreal both needs and given its early history also deserved. But taking it too far has consequences.

And as someone who grew up with 3 brothers: It is for the stronger one to stop the conflict and act with controlled force. And Isreal is the stronger one and right now it is beating the smaller brother into a bloody bulp in stupid rage as the rest of the world watches in absolute horror.

¹: https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-child...

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