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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#761

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

bjoli wrote: post #673
GordonS wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in turn, thanks to orgs like AIPAC.

I had a look at the democrats who support the recent "Stop Terror-Financing and Tax Penalties on American Hostages Act". I had a look at 10 of them. 7 of them had substantial donations from AIPAC. The others were soon up for re-election. I am not American, but why oh why are you not rooting in the streets? That is just soooo effed up. This is just one of so many issues, and AIPAC is a just a part of the problem. It i…

US has a lot of issues. Some of those issues are obvious. Some of those issues are not obvious. Some have solutions. Some really do not have solutions that do not include changes that would make US fall apart as a result of those changes. Some of those issues have business interests ensuring those issues stay exactly as they are..

All this is also happening against conscious propaganda apparatus ensuring an individual stays separated from otherwise normal bonds. Entire communities are atomized to ensure they do not pose a threat of banding together. And this does not even begin to touch the social fabric.

Some of the stuff is fucked up, but one has to pick battles. Things are bad, but not bad enough in many people's view. Naturally, that can change. And since are we raised to believe in 'the economy', it only takes another 2008 to have Americans reconsider their current social agreement.

edit: bunch of syntax

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#762

Post by danenania »

anon291 wrote: post #757
danenania wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the US wanted to, and if it did it correctly, it could easily conquer most countries. It could possibly conquer many countries by largely destroying them as was done to Germany and Japan, but since the US is a democracy and a sizable portion of its people have morals and aren't sociopaths, it's politically impossible to fight a war this way in the modern era without some kind of extreme provocation. Even immedia…

> Even immediately after 9/11, I think most Americans would not have signed on to a campaign of total war in Afghanistan with multiple millions dead. This falls clearly under 'not wanting to'.

Fair enough. I guess my point is that even if military and political leaders did want to take this approach, they'd face massive popular resistance. So it kind of depends on what you mean when you say a country 'wants' something.

To wit, some ~60% of Americans currently oppose offensive arms sales to Israel[1], and yet it continues. Would you say America wants this to happen?

1 - https://theintercept.com/2024/09/10/polls-arms-embargo-israe...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#763

Post by barney54 »

mongol wrote: post #747
anon291 wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

ICC have those guns, which Netanyahu will experience if he steps foot in a country that follows ICC decisions.

Even France admits it might not arrest Netanyahu. From an NPR article:

“And in France, a spokesperson for the foreign ministry said the country would act "in line with the ICC's statutes," but as to whether it would arrest Netanyahu if he entered France, the question was "legally complex."

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/21/g-s1-35169/icc-israel-hamas-a...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#764

Post by woooooo »

anon291 wrote: post #727
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

There was never a 'rules-based world order'. We live purely in Pax Americana and every government exists at the pleasure of the United States. If the US wanted to, and if it did it correctly, it could easily conquer most countries. Afghanistan happened because America lost the will, not the ability. Had America gone the normal colonial route, Afghanistan would look a lot different today.

The UK at their peak and also Russia, twice, tried the "normal colonial route" in Afghanistan..

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#765

Post by barney54 »

Animats wrote: post #704
edanm wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? Absolutely this matters. This effectively limits where Netanyahu and Gallant can travel to. That's a big deal for a head of state. It sends a signal to all of Europe to be wary of doing business with Israel, which is a big deal. We also don't kno…

At some point Netanyahu will be out of power. He's been voted out of office before. He's in trouble politically. He promised a short, victorious war over Gaza, and got into a long major war against Iran and more countries instead. The next government might decide to turn him over to the ICC simply to get him off the political stage.

It will not happen to that next administration would turn over Netanyahu to the ICC. Even if they wanted to, he would seek asylum in the U.S. Embassy and he would certainly be granted asylum.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#766

Post by dotancohen »

joejohnson wrote: post #759
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

The rules-based order was always a fiction; international law is a tool used solely against America’s enemies. This arrest warrant could be executed in a day if the US would stop supporting this genocide, but that won’t happen. They will sooner invite Netanyahu back to the UN to order more air strikes on refugees.

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#767

Post by rendall »

grumple wrote: post #522
dang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On HN, having some stories with political overlap is both inevitable and ok—the question is which particular stories those should be. We try to go for the ones that contain significant new information. See more at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42204689 . This approach has been stable for many years and there's no intention to allow HN to become a primarily-political site (quite the contrary) but it also doesn'…

[flagged]

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#768

Post by dotancohen »

bbqfog wrote: post #144
justin66 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did they really think that when they talk Hebrew to their audience, rest of the world does not hear them. When it comes to US public opinion, that's normally the way it works.

[flagged]

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#769

Post by tzs »

RIMR wrote: post #736
pyuser583 wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Israel has not applied to be a member of the ICC so anything Israel does or does not do is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the ICC should admit or have admitted anyone else.

PS: I don't understand why this is controversial (which I infer that it is watching its points rapidly fluctuate).

The ICC exists to enforce certain international criminal law.

Someone suggested that intending to abide by those laws should be a requirement for admissions to the ICC. This seems like a pretty common sense approach. They also pointed out that the leaders in Gaza do not abide by those laws, and that this would have been a good reason for the ICC to not accept their application for admission.

Several people then pointed out that Israel also does not abide by those laws. My point is that this is a reason to reject Israel if they ever apply to join the ICC. When anyone applies to join the ICC it should be what they do that matters, not what others do.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#770

Post by bbqfog »

dotancohen wrote: post #760
GordonS wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind the conviction rate at ICC is pretty low. My understanding is that's because it's usually difficult to show intent . However, in this case, not only do we have an incredible amount of video evidence of war crimes, but we also have a huge catalogue of Israeli politicians explicitly calling for the genocide of Gaza. My biggest concern over this is what the US and/or Mossad will do...

[flagged]

There's video that comes out every single day of dead children and civilians. Those buildings are civilian and not empty.
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