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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#441

Post by nickff »

TrackerFF wrote: post #284
BadHumans wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using it as his justification for pulling out of NATO comes to mind.

Man, Trump isn't going to shit about leaving NATO. He'll moan about some countries not spending enough, that's about it. Leaving NATO would mean closing US-bases in Europe overnight, not getting valuable intel from partners in NATO, jeopardizing US defense deals, and a million other things. As always, it's grandstanding from Trump to get some extra bucks from his allies. US pulling out of NATO would likely embolden C…

I don't think that leaving NATO would necessitate closing US bases in Germany or Italy; it is my understanding that those bases are required (to be provided by the respective 'hosts') as a condition of the treaties which ended World War II.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#442

Post by Hikikomori »

HappyPanacea wrote: post #221
Cyph0n wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Israel de facto controls the Rafah border. 2. Due to (1), and clear & consistent messaging by Israeli officials on Gaza resettlement as a goal, Egypt understands that “temporary” refugees will be unable to return - i.e., a repeat of 1948 and 1967.

I don't think Israel controlled the Rafah border in the start of the war which is when they made their declaration of not allowing aid.

They say that Israel didn't control it yet you couldn't go through it without their approval.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#443

Post by churchill »

zer8k wrote: post #400
excalibur wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Terrorism is defined as the use of violence in the pursuit of political aims.

By that definition, the American founding fathers were terrorists. Hell, Jewish military & paramilitary groups like Irgun, Tzahal, Stern gang and Palmach were all terrorist gangs using force to establish the Jewish State and expel Palestinians from their homes.

By that logic, America's drone strikes that killed hundreds of innocent bystanders in the Middle East were acts of terror.

Do you want us to take your logic a bit further?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#444

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

TrueDuality wrote: post #206
bluGill wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming the court isn't a political thing that is trying to get him regardless of evidence. The court is at least partially political, and Netanyahu will tell you this is entirely political and he wouldn't get a fair trail.

Courts are political entities but this is one that Israel chose to accept and recognize the authority of. It has a history of being very transparent in its decisions and is widely recognized as being neutral and fair in their decision making process. Of course the person charged and found guilty of a crime will argue against the court. Disagreement, even if valid, doesn't change the recognized authority of this court…

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#445

Post by nickff »

DasIch wrote: post #111
roody15 wrote: post #99

What is the point of the ICC? Russia doesn't recognize it, Israel doesn't recognize it and even the United States doesn't recognize it. I am confused at what these warrants even mean.

In practice these warrants mean that they cannot travel to any country that does recognize the ICC without being arrested, which means they almost certainly won't.

ICC member Mongolia didn't arrest Putin when he visited. https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/ukraine-situation-icc-pre-trial...

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#447

Post by klipt »

usaar333 wrote: post #423
TrueDuality wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Courts are political entities but this is one that Israel chose to accept and recognize the authority of. It has a history of being very transparent in its decisions and is widely recognized as being neutral and fair in their decision making process. Of course the person charged and found guilty of a crime will argue against the court. Disagreement, even if valid, doesn't change the recognized authority of this court…

Neither Israel nor the de-facto government of Gaza they are fighting ever accepted the authority of the ICC; neither has signed the Rome Treaty. The ICC authority is being derived from the Palestinian Authority applying for membership and the Court deciding earlier in a 2-1 decision that Palestine is a state, the PA is the legitimate government of Palestine, and that Gaza is territory under its jurisdiction.

[flagged]

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#448

Post by ComputerGuru »

zer8k wrote: post #400
excalibur wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Haniyeh was a noncombatant and a political leader, living in a US-allied country with the blessing of the USA (and now the other political leaders have just moved to Turkey, a NATO member to boot). Being a noncombatant affiliated with a group that your country has deemed a terror organization does not, under international law, give you carte Blanche to assassinate them.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#449

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

nabla9 wrote: post #12

(before you jump into discussion, remember that this only about these two individuals) ICC and the prosecutor are on very solid ground here. The prosecutor asked opinions from a impartial panel of experts in international law. The panel included people like Theodor Meron (former Legal adviser for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Helene Kennedy, Adrian Fulford. Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant provided plenty of ev…

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants?

It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren put out complaining that Trump was breaking the law because he didn't sign some ethics pledge: https://x.com/SenWarren/status/1856046118322188573. I couldn't help but roll my eyes. All Warren was doing was showing how pointless these laws are when there are no consequences for breaking them.

The rules-based world order was always a bit of convenient fiction, but I'm afraid it's a fiction that a large part of the world no longer believes in anymore.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#450

Post by ComputerGuru »

tsimionescu wrote: post #416
FireBeyond wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context, this is only possible because the state of Palestine pushed hard and persisted for years to become an ICC member and thus give the ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed on Palestinian territory, whether by Israel or by Palestinian factions. The USA is still mad at them for doing it. That sounds biased. Why -shouldn't- Palestine be able to be a member of the ICC? Your verbiage makes it sounds like they…

I think the GP intended to congratulate the Palestinians for their digged resilience in pursuing this, despite the extraordinary opposition they faced. I think they were using this language specifically to suggest how hard the fight was, not to imply that it was a bad thing.

You are correct. But given the normal position people take when it comes to Palestine, I don’t blame GP for misinterpreting! :)
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