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Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

news.mit.edu

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Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#131

Post by bigstrat2003 »

kasey_junk wrote: post #71
alsetmusic wrote: post #2

Awesome. Now let’s lower the bar further and do it everywhere. And then let’s keep doing more until students can pay their tuition with a summer job, like they could when our elders went to school. I’ll hold off on asking for higher education to be free, as the culture still pushes back on that. But a return to the former model would be most welcome.

Do we also return the facilities to the state they were in before, particularly the residential programs? College enrollment percentage? What about a near universal military draft for men? Not that I think lowering the cost of education is a bad effort but appeals to some prior culture like they are apples to apples comparison is dishonest.

> Do we also return the facilities to the state they were in before, particularly the residential programs?

Yes, please. Students learned just fine without all the fancy facilities. Perks are great and all, but I would trade them for a low cost of education in a second.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#132

Post by s1artibartfast »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #92
s1artibartfast wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because education is largely an afterthought, and universities primarily compete on entertainment and prestige. High cost and exclusivity is the entire point. A university open to all with a fraction of the price would be a poorly ranked one in every competitive measure.

Still, I do not get it. Why would this competition / exclusivity rule be so much less prevalent in large parts of Europe? I don't want to say Europe is without problems, but I think this kind of legislation, together with social security in general, is a clear example of how it can be handled more efficient and fair for most people.

Good question. I wonder if labor competition in Europe is less reliant on University names and reputation? IT could also have to do with cultural difference is what students look for in a university.

My understanding is that most universities in Europe look more like US bare bones commuter schools, opposed to an all inclusive recreational experience.

The top ranked university in Europe is Oxford, which educates more than twice as many students as MIT with half the budget. I doubt this is because Oxford is cutting corners on educational curriculum.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#133

Post by dec0dedab0de »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #47
TheJoeMan wrote: post #32

This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the fami…

Why are such things in the US so complicated? Where I live, studying is much much cheaper for most professions,for everyone! That's the only fair way. Also, a set of well educated people pays itself back later in the form of mostly income and added value taxes, which provides money to keep studying for cheap for the next generation.

We have plenty of cheaper schools too, and they’re fine.

The expensive schools are for the richest people to say they went to school next to the best students who get in free.And for the best students to meet rich people.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#134

Post by LtWorf »

ummonk wrote: post #119
shafyy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where the OP lives. But in Switzerland, where world-class univeristies like the ETH cost something like $ 1.5k a year in tuition, I'm pretty certain that people earn more on average than in the USA.

Americans earn more than Swiss people after taxes according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c...

And after paying insurance?

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#135

Post by cpufry »

TheJoeMan wrote: post #32

This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the fami…

[dead]

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#136

Post by kasey_junk »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #131
kasey_junk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we also return the facilities to the state they were in before, particularly the residential programs? College enrollment percentage? What about a near universal military draft for men? Not that I think lowering the cost of education is a bad effort but appeals to some prior culture like they are apples to apples comparison is dishonest.

> Do we also return the facilities to the state they were in before, particularly the residential programs? Yes, please. Students learned just fine without all the fancy facilities. Perks are great and all, but I would trade them for a low cost of education in a second.

The university’s would argue that the students voted with their feet, and that those facilities are an arms race that if you lose you lose students.

I do t know that they are disinterested parties in this that can be trusted uncritically but there is a community college near me that has nicer gym facilities for their students than my big 10 Alma matter had for its “student” athletes when I was in school. Something drives that.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#137

Post by sunshowers »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #47
TheJoeMan wrote: post #32

This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the fami…

Why are such things in the US so complicated? Where I live, studying is much much cheaper for most professions,for everyone! That's the only fair way. Also, a set of well educated people pays itself back later in the form of mostly income and added value taxes, which provides money to keep studying for cheap for the next generation.

Education in the US isn't cheap but those are elite colleges. The price tag is mostly for the networking.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#138

Post by dragonwriter »

changoplatanero wrote: post #101
mh- wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, you're reasoning about it incorrectly. What if I said: the price is the same for everyone, but people with less access to money get proportionally more assistance paying that price?

still seems weird to me. is there any other product for 18-22 year olds where the price changes depending on their parents wealth?

> still seems weird to me. is there any other product for 18-22 year olds where the price changes depending on their parents wealth?

If by “price” you mean, “net price after available subsidies”, then, yeah: healthcare, housing, and food, among others.

The difference is that the subsidies are usually public, whereas the education subsidies are by the seller—but the seller is also a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, the entire premise of which, and the reason donations to them are tax deductible to the donor on top of the nonprofit being tax exempt, is that the nonprofit functions serves social needs in lieu of the government doing so.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#140

Post by s1artibartfast »

currymj wrote: post #123
s1artibartfast wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because education is largely an afterthought, and universities primarily compete on entertainment and prestige. High cost and exclusivity is the entire point. A university open to all with a fraction of the price would be a poorly ranked one in every competitive measure.

actually ETHZ and EPFL are very good and highly ranked, and have cheap tuition and open enrollment. i don’t know how they do it. I guess things just work better in Switzerland.

I was speaking to the US situation, and agree most European schools are quite cheap in comparison. Not only in tuition, but in terms of their budgets; US schools spend 4-5X as much per student- so it isnt just about state funding.
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