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New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

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Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#11
post #4

I would think newer sats will have collision avoidance capabilities and older ones will just crash. Maybe even clean up sats will be developed to collection them

Satellites fail (lost control, or spontaneously explode). Very small debris is everywhere and under 5-10 cm largely untracked, but some are working to fix this gap.

There is no incentive large enough for cleanup (it's expensive, nobody can/wants to pay, and there are a lot of objects)

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#12
post #8

The current trajectory is that SpaceX proved the commercial and military viability of an LEO megaconstellation, repeatedly lowering their target altitudes and raising their satellite count because of debris and cell size concerns... And now the rest of the world is trying to catch up in a sort of arms race, and not taking any care about debris concerns. The most tempting orbits are the ones in upper LEO that permit t…

> upper stages designed to explode into a thousand pieces at the target altitude By this do you mean at the 800km altitude?

Yes. In a lot of historical spaceflight programs, the stage used in the upper atmosphere stayed with you to the final orbit, and was detached at low speed there. This saved you from having to design your satellite with significant onboard propulsion. Some of the upper stages were able to vent remaining propellants or pressurants, some were allowed to heat up until the pressure vessel exploded.

Suffice it to say this is not sustainable for megaconstellations in thousand years orbits. The responsible thing to do with that kind of scale involves reliable, redundant, prompt de-orbit of upper stages, and ideally for high-thrust, high-mass, high-engineering-margin-of-error atmospheric upper stages never to make it that far into the mission.

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#13
post #10

There might be a cool storyline where we have to use enormous ground based lasers to clean up and start again. Could even look a bit like the iconic Gibraltar WW2 search lights photographs.

What would zapping a satellite with a laser achieve? I suppose if you get it hot enough to melt everything, without anything flying off, then it would turn into a spherical drop of molten scrap... but then what?

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#14

As long as it is militarily and commercially viable then the number of satellites will continue increasing, regardless of what academics have to say about collision rates. As per usual this is a coordination problem and in case people have not noticed nations are becoming less coordinated and more insular.

> in case people have not noticed nations are becoming less coordinated and more insular.

And what is your yardstick for measuring this? As far as I can tell this is the opposite of true. It's a popular national news meme but I don't believe it's been measured in any reliable way.

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#15
post #10

There might be a cool storyline where we have to use enormous ground based lasers to clean up and start again. Could even look a bit like the iconic Gibraltar WW2 search lights photographs.

What would zapping a satellite with a laser achieve? I suppose if you get it hot enough to melt everything, without anything flying off, then it would turn into a spherical drop of molten scrap... but then what?

I assume the poster means to change its trajectory.

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#16
My understanding was always that LEO is much less of a Kessler risk due to atmospheric friction - ie: in the absence of active control and regular correction, LEO objects will gradually de-orbit themselves. It's the the higher geostationary orbits that pose the problem.

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#17
post #8

The current trajectory is that SpaceX proved the commercial and military viability of an LEO megaconstellation, repeatedly lowering their target altitudes and raising their satellite count because of debris and cell size concerns... And now the rest of the world is trying to catch up in a sort of arms race, and not taking any care about debris concerns. The most tempting orbits are the ones in upper LEO that permit t…

One way is for the the US to be more politically stable again (some how). Every country with an army will want its own star link now for trust reasons.

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#18
Positioning a large, armored satellite in low or mid-Earth orbit significantly enhances its strategic value for both offensive and defensive anti-satellite operations. Such a platform could serve as a pivotal asset in maintaining orbital dominance, offering rapid response capabilities to neutralize threats and protect critical infrastructure.

In other words, welcome various "death stars" to keep order against malicious Kessler style attacks, etc.

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#19
post #8

The current trajectory is that SpaceX proved the commercial and military viability of an LEO megaconstellation, repeatedly lowering their target altitudes and raising their satellite count because of debris and cell size concerns... And now the rest of the world is trying to catch up in a sort of arms race, and not taking any care about debris concerns. The most tempting orbits are the ones in upper LEO that permit t…

One way is for the the US to be more politically stable again (some how). Every country with an army will want its own star link now for trust reasons.

For how long?

Because this thing is happening right now, it's happening fast, and it's happening without any effort to fight against the trend.

If your answer is "let's revisit this in 2050", then it isn't an answer.

Re: New Calculation Finds we are close to the Kessler Syndrome [video]

#20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way is for the the US to be more politically stable again (some how). Every country with an army will want its own star link now for trust reasons.

For how long? Because this thing is happening right now, it's happening fast, and it's happening without any effort to fight against the trend. If your answer is "let's revisit this in 2050", then it isn't an answer.

Yeah well it means a lot of satellites are going to end up in space then.
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