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Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

news.mit.edu

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Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#21

Post by robocat »

bko wrote: post #11

MIT is a great financial investment. There is financing already available (federal and private) so presumably if someone wanted to go they likely could. They may leave with debt however. The median salary of an MIT graduate is 120k and the median debt is 12k, and less for lower income families (2023-2024): $0 - $30,000 family income: $6,866 $30,001 - $75,000 family income: $9,132 $75,000+ family income: $12,500 Bumpi…

> They may leave with debt however.

The linked article says not.

  Loans are not included in our financial aid offers because we believe your financial aid will cover your expenses. We do not expect any undergraduate to take out a loan. Rather than borrow, most students opt to work during the academic year. At MIT, this work often provides students not only a way to help pay for college but also with world-class research experience.
Of course there is still the small matter of investing a few years of your life. The biggest regret I have with my degree (Canterbury) is the waste of time. I didn't learn much but the degree did get me a job.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#22

Post by aidenn0 »

bko wrote: post #11

MIT is a great financial investment. There is financing already available (federal and private) so presumably if someone wanted to go they likely could. They may leave with debt however. The median salary of an MIT graduate is 120k and the median debt is 12k, and less for lower income families (2023-2024): $0 - $30,000 family income: $6,866 $30,001 - $75,000 family income: $9,132 $75,000+ family income: $12,500 Bumpi…

> Bumping this up to families making $200k seems really unnecessary and helps people that don't really need to help.

My household income is right around $200k, and my daughter (still a few years from college) would definitely consider e.g. UC Berkeley, which (including housing) is half the cost of MIT for an in-state student. Free tuition would certainly make her look at MIT more closely, so if the goal is to draw the best students (and helping poor students is a side-effect), then it's a good idea.

Also, it's headline-grabbing. There's at least one poor kid somewhere in the US who will read this headline and consider MIT, when they previously didn't (even though they probably already would have qualified for free, or nearly-free tuition).

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#23

Post by jacobgkau »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #17
knowitnone wrote: post #14

Yeah, education should be free. Record all lectures and put them out there. Charge a small fee to view them if you must but lecturers repeating themselves is not my idea of a great use of their time. Yes, I know lots of lectures are already published.

Watching non-interactive lectures is a small part of the overall experience. I'm not commenting on whether the experience is 'worth it', but assuming the only thing people get is the ability to watch lectures doesn't make the point.

On the other hand, many people act like "talking to professors over beer" (or to your classmates, for that matter) is supposed to add "value" to the college experience, when it's perfectly possible to get at least a bachelor's and a master's without ever doing that (source: I did).

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#24

Post by mullingitover »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #17
knowitnone wrote: post #14

Yeah, education should be free. Record all lectures and put them out there. Charge a small fee to view them if you must but lecturers repeating themselves is not my idea of a great use of their time. Yes, I know lots of lectures are already published.

Watching non-interactive lectures is a small part of the overall experience. I'm not commenting on whether the experience is 'worth it', but assuming the only thing people get is the ability to watch lectures doesn't make the point.

A big part of it is having a long-term peer group of people who were disciplined and motivated enough to get into MIT and succeed there. Arguably true for any university. We're products of our environments, and if you surround yourselves with hardworking people it rubs off on you.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#25

Post by WorkerBee28474 »

dleink wrote: post #19
kevinventullo wrote: post #4

The article claims 80% of American households meet this threshold. I wonder what % of their incoming class (say restricted to Americans) meets this threshold.

Princeton has had a similar rule since 2001. Their current number is $100k. 25% of students pay nothing to attend. [0] [0] https://www.princeton.edu/news/2024/03/29/princeton-trustees... (go tigers)

Approximately 60% of American households earn less than $100K. That's quite a difference in relative size.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#26

Post by rahimnathwani »

jacobgkau wrote: post #23
rahimnathwani wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching non-interactive lectures is a small part of the overall experience. I'm not commenting on whether the experience is 'worth it', but assuming the only thing people get is the ability to watch lectures doesn't make the point.

On the other hand, many people act like "talking to professors over beer" (or to your classmates, for that matter) is supposed to add "value" to the college experience, when it's perfectly possible to get at least a bachelor's and a master's without ever doing that (source: I did).

Two people with the same GPA and same piece of paper from the same college, may have gotten different amounts of lasting value from their college experience.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#27

Post by p-a_58213 »

knowitnone wrote: post #14

Yeah, education should be free. Record all lectures and put them out there. Charge a small fee to view them if you must but lecturers repeating themselves is not my idea of a great use of their time. Yes, I know lots of lectures are already published.

It really depends on the subject matter and the institution's focus (and tier). For disciplines where foundational knowledge remains relatively unchanged (say, Latin) recorded lectures could be an efficient way to disseminate information without requiring professors to repeat the same material. A "flipped classroom" would offer opportunities for more dynamic interaction and deeper understanding, and of course this would cost money.

However, as a professor myself in a rapidly evolving STEM field adjacent to AI, I update at least 20% of my course materials each year to keep pace with new developments. As it happens, about a third of the new content is derived from my research group's latest work. Recording lectures isn't a one-time effort; it would require constant updates to remain relevant (and let me tell you, if you want to get the voice-over right, it is a lot more time-consuming and soul-crushing than simply turning up in class and giving a live lecture).

The value of live lectures goes beyond just "transmitting" content. They offer real-time interaction, immediate feedback, and dynamic discussions that adapt to the students' understanding. This level of interaction devilishly difficult to replicate in recorded formats.

I would ramble on more, but I need to return to the lecture materials I am developing for this Friday on Vision-Language Models :P

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#28

Post by njtransit »

araes wrote: post #12

Started looking and found out there's some much worse, and far more obvious cases that need to implement these reforms. [1] UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting on a $20,000,000,000 endowment fund that went up +170% over 10 years while Philadelphia rots with drug use, poverty, and gun violence. BTW, amazing site to be horrified by gun violence (and vaguely fascinated). Look upon the awfulness of Philadelphia. [2] Sitti…

What is the argument here, exactly?

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#29

Post by mmcwilliams »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #20
bko wrote: post #11

MIT is a great financial investment. There is financing already available (federal and private) so presumably if someone wanted to go they likely could. They may leave with debt however. The median salary of an MIT graduate is 120k and the median debt is 12k, and less for lower income families (2023-2024): $0 - $30,000 family income: $6,866 $30,001 - $75,000 family income: $9,132 $75,000+ family income: $12,500 Bumpi…

When I looked at MIT in 1990, tuition was fully covered but housing was BRUTAL. More than twice my parents mortgage. I'm sure it's worse, now.

It definitely is and is made worse by institutions like MIT and Harvard that don't pay their full tax burden to the city due to the PILOT program. They're allowed to accrue more and more real estate while paying a fraction of the taxes that other property holders would and drive prices up dramatically.

Re: Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

#30

Post by ciupicri »

araes wrote: post #12

Started looking and found out there's some much worse, and far more obvious cases that need to implement these reforms. [1] UPenn is THE most obvious. Sitting on a $20,000,000,000 endowment fund that went up +170% over 10 years while Philadelphia rots with drug use, poverty, and gun violence. BTW, amazing site to be horrified by gun violence (and vaguely fascinated). Look upon the awfulness of Philadelphia. [2] Sitti…

So if a university has money, learning there should be free?

If you don't have guns, you won't have gun violence, but I guess the second amendment won't be changed any time soon.

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