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DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

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Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#821

Post by rollcat »

rawgabbit wrote: post #718
pjc50 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is this: - the browser is undeniably critical as everyone's window through which they view the online world; - the user gains a huge amount of value by a browser being integrated into the OS, webviews in other applications, etc - browsers aren't really a self funding product - having a single for-profit US advertising company control everyone's view of the online world, however slightly (e.g. by obstructi…

The issue is who controls Chromium. I would create a non profit and staff it with a handful of maintainers. Their primary job would be to ensure safety and squash exploits. Their other job is to curate and approve pull requests from volunteers for enhancements. They should make it open source with the caveat if it is used for commercial purposes, there will be a licensing fee to pay for security enhancements, bug bou…

So more or less what Mozilla was supposed to be all along?

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#822

Post by nolist_policy »

rileyphone wrote: post #804
throwaway2037 wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise some very important points. Specifically, this one: > browsers aren't really a self funding product I feel the same. I also feel the same about a modern C library and C compiler (and C++, if you like). They are essential to build any modern system and applications. Yet, those are also (mostly) no longer self-funding products. What do you think will happen if Google is forced to divest Chrome?

Firefox has made Mozilla billions over its lifetime by selling the default search engine rights to Yahoo and Google. Chrome, having a much greater user base, would demand a correspondingly higher fee (probably around $10b a year). Now, the other problem is there is no other search engine to compete with Google at that level, but that might change with independence of Chrome.

Google's payment to be the default search engine was ruled anti-competitive though.

https://fortune.com/2024/08/05/mozilla-firefox-biggest-poten...

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#823

Post by singleshot_ »

pjc50 wrote: post #548
rkharsan64 wrote: post #510

People here seem to be underestimating the advantages that Google gets just because of Chrome: - When you sign in to Google, you sign in browser-wide. Google now gets all of your browsing data, perfect for advertising. (If you ever doubt it, go check out Google Takeout. You'll be shocked at the amount of data you see there.) - They have special APIs and features that they get to use, and nobody else. Only because the…

The problem is this: - the browser is undeniably critical as everyone's window through which they view the online world; - the user gains a huge amount of value by a browser being integrated into the OS, webviews in other applications, etc - browsers aren't really a self funding product - having a single for-profit US advertising company control everyone's view of the online world, however slightly (e.g. by obstructi…

I’m consistently fascinated to look at Chrome/Google and think of all the things we lost when we broke IE/Microsoft.

To what extent and I holding a stupid belief, and why? I think I might like to be talked out of this, if reasonable. Want to try?

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#824

Post by ranger_danger »

maeil wrote: post #746
pjc50 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is this: - the browser is undeniably critical as everyone's window through which they view the online world; - the user gains a huge amount of value by a browser being integrated into the OS, webviews in other applications, etc - browsers aren't really a self funding product - having a single for-profit US advertising company control everyone's view of the online world, however slightly (e.g. by obstructi…

> browsers aren't really a self funding product They are, see how both Safari and Firefox, the 2nd and 3rd most popular browsers, have brought in tens of billions of revenue per year. Safari is immensely profitable, Firefox too would be if Mozilla wouldn't be run in an absurdly poor manner. > the user gains a huge amount of value by a browser being integrated into the OS, webviews in other applications, etc What is t…

Please provide proof that Firefox has "brought in tens of billions of revenue per year".

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#825

Post by ranger_danger »

lofaszvanitt wrote: post #556
pjc50 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is this: - the browser is undeniably critical as everyone's window through which they view the online world; - the user gains a huge amount of value by a browser being integrated into the OS, webviews in other applications, etc - browsers aren't really a self funding product - having a single for-profit US advertising company control everyone's view of the online world, however slightly (e.g. by obstructi…

Browsers should be developed by an intercountry nonprofit. Funded by all the countries' governments.

That is your assumption.

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#826

Post by mattferderer »

tbrownaw wrote: post #653
addicted wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google isn’t “getting targeted”. But to answer your question. 1. Microsoft gets left alone - Really? You may want to ask the closest adult near you about this. 2. Amazon - The government has looked into Amazon multiple times. It’s hard to see where Amazon does anything to illegally use its monopoly (they don’t use their shopping advantage to cross sell AWS in any way, or Vice versa). Amazon is genuinely not a bad mon…

> Microsoft gets left alone - Really? You may want to ask the closest adult near you about this. I've got some bad news for you: 2001 was 23 years ago. It's possible to not just be a legal adult (18) but also old enough to drink (21) and still not have been born yet when that was going down.

Thank you for making us all feel very old.

Slight aside on the original post:

* Microsoft did just fight off a huge government battle on Activision. I believe they lost a battle on Teams bundling. Last week the FTC announced they were looking into Azure.

* Apple, their store & mobile browser has been a topic of monopoly discussions for years.

* Amazon wasn't allowed to buy Roomba just this past year. They've had tons of inquires over the past decade.

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#827

Post by GoblinSlayer »

pjc50 wrote: post #548
rkharsan64 wrote: post #510

People here seem to be underestimating the advantages that Google gets just because of Chrome: - When you sign in to Google, you sign in browser-wide. Google now gets all of your browsing data, perfect for advertising. (If you ever doubt it, go check out Google Takeout. You'll be shocked at the amount of data you see there.) - They have special APIs and features that they get to use, and nobody else. Only because the…

The problem is this: - the browser is undeniably critical as everyone's window through which they view the online world; - the user gains a huge amount of value by a browser being integrated into the OS, webviews in other applications, etc - browsers aren't really a self funding product - having a single for-profit US advertising company control everyone's view of the online world, however slightly (e.g. by obstructi…

>browsers aren't really a self funding product

You can use Firefox 3, programs don't rot.

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#828

Post by rkagerer »

Google says the proposals would harm consumers and developers

Hey Google - I'm both, and your trend over the years of degrading products I used to love with increasingly user-hostile choices has already caused me more harm than I can imagine could arise out of fixing the incentives.

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#829

Post by rawgabbit »

rollcat wrote: post #821
rawgabbit wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is who controls Chromium. I would create a non profit and staff it with a handful of maintainers. Their primary job would be to ensure safety and squash exploits. Their other job is to curate and approve pull requests from volunteers for enhancements. They should make it open source with the caveat if it is used for commercial purposes, there will be a licensing fee to pay for security enhancements, bug bou…

So more or less what Mozilla was supposed to be all along?

Yes.

Re: DOJ will push Google to sell off Chrome

#830

Post by rawgabbit »

kernal wrote: post #782
rawgabbit wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is who controls Chromium. I would create a non profit and staff it with a handful of maintainers. Their primary job would be to ensure safety and squash exploits. Their other job is to curate and approve pull requests from volunteers for enhancements. They should make it open source with the caveat if it is used for commercial purposes, there will be a licensing fee to pay for security enhancements, bug bou…

Do you think Google will continue to invest money and resources into the development of Chromium if they were forced to sell Chrome? I don't. The first thing I would do is close source the Chromium project and work on a new closed source browser to compete with Chrome. I also don't see Chrome surviving when all of the Google/Chromium developers have left.

I beg to differ. Google will go where the users are; their ad business depends on it.
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