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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#651

Post by jgalt212 »

bane wrote: post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

> uses the 92 octane fuel

There's no evidence that higher octane fuel is required or leads to performance gains in excess of the cost bump.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#652

Post by logotype »

FactKnower69 wrote: post #574
bane wrote: post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

If you're an American wondering why you're forced to buy shitty overpriced Teslas instead of those $15k BYD Dolphins, here's Janet Yellen screeching about how unfair it is that China uses its labor force to manufacture consumer goods instead of creating millions of bullshit make-work financialization jobs like good liberal democracies https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yellen-intends-warn-...

I would never, EVER, buy any BYD or any car manufactured in China. Support local brands who manufacture locally.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#653

Post by sojournerc »

jgalt212 wrote: post #651
bane wrote: post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

> uses the 92 octane fuel There's no evidence that higher octane fuel is required or leads to performance gains in excess of the cost bump.

High compression engines require high octane to avoid knock. It's not about performance. An engine with a turbo or super charger will always need higher octane fuel.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#654

Post by jgalt212 »

sojournerc wrote: post #653
jgalt212 wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> uses the 92 octane fuel There's no evidence that higher octane fuel is required or leads to performance gains in excess of the cost bump.

High compression engines require high octane to avoid knock. It's not about performance. An engine with a turbo or super charger will always need higher octane fuel.

I have yet to see a study showing efficiency gains, or losses, are greater than the price difference in fuel types.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#655

Post by sojournerc »

jgalt212 wrote: post #654
sojournerc wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High compression engines require high octane to avoid knock. It's not about performance. An engine with a turbo or super charger will always need higher octane fuel.

I have yet to see a study showing efficiency gains, or losses, are greater than the price difference in fuel types.

As I said. It's not about efficiency.

Knock (pre-ignition) will destroy an engine. I have a naturally aspirated infinity, but with compression ratio around 13:1 it calls for premium.

Believe me I wouldn't pay for it if it wasn't necessary. It's still cheaper than a new engine.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#656

Post by ghaff »

stouset wrote: post #626
poidos wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said it yourself — their dwelling is the entire city. Those 400sqft are where they sleep and relax but most of their living probably happens outside. Different strokes and all that.

Same with a hotel. The hotel is where I spend most of my time unconscious. Other than a few select destinations, why would I spend a fortune at a place where I’ll mostly be asleep?

My experience with trying really low-ball hotels is not great. I rarely stay in really luxe places but I do usually go for some midrange business hotel in a city.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#657

Post by snapcaster »

logotype wrote: post #652
FactKnower69 wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an American wondering why you're forced to buy shitty overpriced Teslas instead of those $15k BYD Dolphins, here's Janet Yellen screeching about how unfair it is that China uses its labor force to manufacture consumer goods instead of creating millions of bullshit make-work financialization jobs like good liberal democracies https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yellen-intends-warn-...

I would never, EVER, buy any BYD or any car manufactured in China. Support local brands who manufacture locally.

Why?

edit: presumably you don't (or can't) hold this position for electronics or a myriad of other devices you already own. Why are cars different?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#658

Post by digitallis42 »

evgen wrote: post #650
llm_trw wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that new cars are safe cars. Old cars are death traps. If you value your life you will be buying the new shiny every 5 years or less.

It is one of those 'was it really that long ago? I am getting old' moments to actually look this up, but the last major safety features which moved the needle on keeping you alive in a car were the mandates for side-impact protection and anti-lock braking systems. Both are more than ten years old. I think you would be hard-pressed to name a single innovation from the past five years which has increased your lifespan…

Adaptive cruise was still higher end at that time. Certainly not ubiquitous at the mid tier. Heck, it's barely ubiquitous now. Both adaptive cruise and automatic emergency braking are game changer features for safety on the highway.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#659

Post by jgalt212 »

sojournerc wrote: post #655
jgalt212 wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see a study showing efficiency gains, or losses, are greater than the price difference in fuel types.

As I said. It's not about efficiency. Knock (pre-ignition) will destroy an engine. I have a naturally aspirated infinity, but with compression ratio around 13:1 it calls for premium. Believe me I wouldn't pay for it if it wasn't necessary. It's still cheaper than a new engine.

Knocking and engine efficiency are inter-related.

That being said, unless you are constantly flooring the accelerator and / or doing a lot of track driving, it seems challenging to make a modern (and properly functioning) engine knock on a persistent basis (irrespective of octane).

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#660

Post by digitallis42 »

jgalt212 wrote: post #654
sojournerc wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High compression engines require high octane to avoid knock. It's not about performance. An engine with a turbo or super charger will always need higher octane fuel.

I have yet to see a study showing efficiency gains, or losses, are greater than the price difference in fuel types.

If your engine does not require the higher octane, then no efficiency will be noticed and you're just burning money. If your engine is specified to take the higher octane, then you can notice an efficiency bump over running a lower octane fuel in most modern engines. The engine computer will adjust the valve timing to prevent predetonation with the lower octane fuel at the cost of efficiency.

Adding octane to fuel isn't adding a booster. It's adding stability to the fuel so it can be run in a higher compression engine. If your engine doesn't reach that pressure then you'll notice no effect except your wallet getting lighter.

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