Live data from Hacker News

The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

wsj.com

391–400 of 780 posts

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#391

the only manufacturer that does this right is Aptera, the rest is a bunch of gimmicks / subsidy fraud that doesn't solve any actual problem with cars

You can't really call them a "manufacturer" when they haven't manufactured a single car, can you? I think they have exactly one test vehicle that they've made by hand.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda think the whole thing is just Elon tricking republicans into buying electric cars.

[flagged]

He also had kind of a meltdown during the initial period of COVID isolation when his factories were closed too.

I think it was that double-whammy: both his trans daughter and the threat of COVID shutdowns destroying Tesla happened pretty close to each other. Those combined drove him not just to traditional fiscal conservatism but to the modern populist identity-driven Trump politics.

That and he's visibly obsessed with validation and popularity and going hard-right has given him that in spades. He wants to be cheered-for at rallies the way Trump is... remember the time that Dave Chappelle brought him out on stage in SF and he was greeted with a wave of boos?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#393

I took advantage of the IRA solar power and $7500 EV credit, now I have an off grid home all electric appliances and excess power for hot tubs and EV's. The Ford Lightning acts as a generator. This was the greatest most life changing and impactful legistlation ever: I've had $0 (ZERO!) in gasoline, LP, and electric utility bills since installation last year.

What do you use for energy storage and how much can you store? When we were considering solar panel solution for our small apartment complex that was the major cost and the reason we decided against a few years ago.

It's getting cheaper all the time, look at tesla powerwalls and many other companies are using them. But the really cheap thing to do it get an older EV like a leaf, they are much much less per kwh than standalone cars.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money. The insurance company gives a discount. And honestly, for someone who doesn't share my same strong values for privacy, I don't blame them!

The point about the insurance GPS is that they will eventually use it against the person. 'You were going 5mph over the speed limit before the crash...' that kind of thing. Giving them more information will just lead to the consumer being hurt. Oh, and they will clearly sell that info to anyone they can get to buy it of course. That part isn't great either.

> eventually

No one thinks about "eventually." That's a long time and may never happen to them. "Now" is more important.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#395

If we wanted a cheap American electric car, the way to do it would be to allow Chinese EV manufacturers to sell to the American public! Of course, that is not allowed, because it would benefit the American people and hurt the American car cartel.

No. They will flood the market with government-subsidized EVs built in zero-workers-rights environments that will absolutely destroy the American auto industry. It will benefit American people in the short term but absolutely harm our country long-term.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#396

If we wanted a cheap American electric car, the way to do it would be to allow Chinese EV manufacturers to sell to the American public! Of course, that is not allowed, because it would benefit the American people and hurt the American car cartel.

Well, there's also the 4.3 million US autoworkers who'd ultimately be the ones to get shafted. I don't think we can keep killing off entire industries and expect it to work out in the long run. At some point, what's left? WalMart?

Who is facing stiff competition from Amazon (heaps of Chinese goods) and Wish (Chinese company)

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the EV car market is lacking demand There is scant evidence for this. Every time prices improve, sales surge. Sounds like the demand is there, but price matters. As it always has.

It's actually growing at around 20% year on year, this year. World wide. The EU is the exception. Mostly because Germany is struggling. Everywhere else, EVs are growing pretty nicely.

German manufacturers also seem to struggle the most with the whole "the cheaper your products are, the more customers can afford them" concept.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that possible? What's it doing that ICE cars can't do on a highway?

I'd guess it has something to do with its unusual drivetrain. It can operate: 1) fully electric, 2) fully electric but with gas used in generator-mode to supply power to the electric drive train, 3) gas engine mechanically powering the wheels (like a normal ICE car). I'd expect it operates in mode 2 a lot when at highway speeds, but not accelerating.

I believe the Prius is either in mode 1 or 3. Never heard that it has a generator capability, unless newer models have changed?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#399

I would love a 10-15K BYD. I was told recently desiring a BYD is un-American when I can spend 3 times the price on a Tesla. No thanks! I’ll hold out for something truly cheap. Cars in America are insanely priced.

Half of America doesn't want to support the incoming administration either, and Musk has decided to closely and personally align himself with it. I wonder if that will affect Tesla sales.

I don't know what will publicly get the blame, but I, and I don't think I'm unique in this regard, am not buying a Tesla because of the documented issues the cars keep having: getting bricked, catching fire, being needlessly difficult to escape in an emergency, tons of unfulfilled promises about new features, etc. On top of this, everyone who I knew who had a Tesla never bought a 2nd.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too bad that the only people benefiting from all green power subsidies are the people that least need them. We should be investing solar in lower income communities, as those people could really use cheaper utilities, and any saving they get would immediately go back into their communities.

We need both. There's plenty of wealthy people that can afford to go solar and could arguably have a bigger environmental impact if they did since they often also have large homes, big cars etc. If they don't feel strongly about doing it for altruistic reasons then subsidies are a useful tool to get them to take the plunge. Without subsidies there's really no economic argument for them to do it since the break even t…

Taking one single family home solar does not provide a measurable environmental impact in aggregate.

OP doesn't have to pay the electric bill anymore, but the average residential solar install exceeds $30k before credits. Someone has to pay off that loan...

Not to mention the Chinese factory that manufactured the solar panels is probably dumping toxic waste chemicals into the local drinking water unabated. We're all too busy patting ourselves on the back for saving the world to consider the impact of the whole lifecycle.

Post reply on HN