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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#301

Post by kccqzy »

solardev wrote: post #271
the_gastropod wrote: post #241

It's weird the Chevy Bolt wasn't mentioned. After the $7500 tax credit, you could get a brand new Chevy Bolt for under $20k. If you haven't driven a Bolt, I can't recommend it more. It's about as perfect as car as I could reasonably dream up. It's a hatchback, minimally gimmicky (compared to, e.g, a Tesla, where so many things are "different" for the sake of being different), unnecessarily fast—truly, it's shocking h…

Didn't they recall all of them for a few years due to some safety issues? Are they fixed yet?

Yeah they are fixed. A Bolt is a nice vehicle to buy if you don't mind its slow charging; and judging by the number of Bolts on the road plenty of people don't mind.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#302

Post by vel0city »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #296
solardev wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't they recall all of them for a few years due to some safety issues? Are they fixed yet?

Yeah, it was just a software patch. Real quick fix.

No, the Bolt had a manufacturing defect which could result in an internal short and cause a battery fire.

All Bolts were available for a recall maintenance where the entire battery was replaced under warranty.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#303

Post by MR4D »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #276
kjksf wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla cars sold in US are the most American build cars. See https://www.carpro.com/blog/most-american-made-vehicle-the-t... What it means that if you count what percentage of car parts are made in America, Tesla has higher percentage that other brands, even those you might consider "more" American, like GM or Ford. All Teslas sold in America are assembled in America (California or Texas). Ford Mustang, for example, i…

I’m saying that Chinese made teslas might be allowed in the USA in the near future. Musk himself has stated bluntly that USA made teslas are lower quality and more expensive so you can see the desire to shut down the US plants and bring in Chinese made Teslas and he clearly has some political sway now.

I’d be surprised if that happened in a Trump-run trade environment.

I know Elon has his ear, but still…

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#304

Post by vundercind »

mikestew wrote: post #254
vundercind wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closer to $20k than $10k seems insane for a budget-tier car, to me. I guess that's my age showing, but it wasn't that long ago (ten years ago? Twelve?) my in-laws got basically two identical Chevys of their shittiest possible model for under $10,000 combined . Granted I think it was the previous model year, but they weren't used cars or anything.

40 years ago, the Yugo was sold in the U. S. for $4500. I’m not questioning the truth of your story, but I think it a poor basis for arguing that cars should be $10K today. The dealer obviously was willing to take a loss to get those Chevys off the lot.

MSRP in 2010 (first I could easily find from around the same period—this was a couple years later) for the worst Chevy Aveo was under $5,000, and MSRP was rather more aspirational (bullshitty) then than it seems to be now, as far as what cars actually sell for. This wasn't even that big a mark-down from MSRP.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#305

Post by rootusrootus »

downrightmike wrote: post #291
rootusrootus wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting local manufacturers from cheap offshore labor is rational, especially if the offshore products are being subsidized specifically to undermine incumbents and put them out of business. I get that individual consumers want the cheapest trinket they can find, but the gov't has to be more strategic. And every country does this, including the one that would be the source of these trinkets.

The only thing locally made is the bare minimum to make it "Made in USA", but everything is heavily outsourced already. There is no point to your argument, as that battle was lost a long time ago.

The assembly line process itself is a big strategic value. And just because we don't manage to source every individual part exclusively from USA labor doesn't mean we should just throw in the towel and completely give up on our ability to make machinery.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#306

Post by some_random »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #258
some_random wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll find most normal people find PHEVs extremely attractive propositions that are a perfect compromise between ICE and EVs.

I mean, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's a compromise. A pure EV would be much better if the charging infrastructure was great. If it isn't, then you need a compromise...

No, even if charging infrastructure was perfect EVs still require a significant amount of time to charge compared to refueling an ICE vehicle. There are other esoteric benefits of ICE but that's the one the vast majority of people are hung up on and that will likely not be fixed anytime soon.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#307

Post by fsckboy »

GratiaTerra wrote: post #248

I took advantage of the IRA solar power and $7500 EV credit, now I have an off grid home all electric appliances and excess power for hot tubs and EV's. The Ford Lightning acts as a generator. This was the greatest most life changing and impactful legistlation ever: I've had $0 (ZERO!) in gasoline, LP, and electric utility bills since installation last year.

[flagged]

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#308

Post by happyopossum »

This is partially a case of not moving the goalposts - if you run an inflation calculator [0] on 25k from 2017-now, it comes in right around 32.5k, and you can definitely order a Tesla for less than that today.

[0]https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=25000&year1=20...

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#310

Post by larkost »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #280
solardev wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of America doesn't want to support the incoming administration either, and Musk has decided to closely and personally align himself with it. I wonder if that will affect Tesla sales.

I kinda think the whole thing is just Elon tricking republicans into buying electric cars.

[flagged]
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