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Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

nytimes.com

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Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#31

Post by rwyinuse »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #16

does nobody think this will risk nuclear war? Is this really a place we want to risk it? I'm amazed at the comments section here

I think it reduces the risk of a nuclear war. The thing to understand about Russia is that all their "red lines" are empty talk, and what they really respect is force. Ukraine appeared weak to Putin, and that's why he invaded. Only way to peacefully coexist with Russia is by either becoming their puppet, or having enough strength to make an invasion seem obviously bad idea.

IMO the best way to prevent a nuclear war with Russia would be supplying all its neighbours with big pile of nuclear weapons. Then they would have nowhere to invade without risking their own destruction.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#32

Post by monetus »

blub wrote: post #17
petermcneeley wrote: post #13

Russia claimed that deep strikes into Russian territory would be crossing a "red line". We shall see; I am nervously excited.

Likely response is bombing whatever is left of Ukrainian power generation and potentially arming the Houthis. The analysis I’ve seen indicates that these weapons will not fundamentally alter the course of the war. Kursk was a gamble to improve Ukraine’s negotiating position, which has gotten consistently worse.

Maybe I'm wrong, but with the river north of the Ukrainian border, it seemed like they wanted that as new easier to maintain defensive line.

The defenses in the north were affected by incompetence or corruption, so the push north came across a little like shoring up their positions to need fewer men in the long run.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#33

Post by ein0p »

exe34 wrote: post #5
yieldcrv wrote: post #4

whats the over-under on that getting revoked in 2 months? what can be done by that military in that amount of time?

they need to capture as much Russian soil as they can, and when the orange man and the other clown tell them to freeze the border, Ukraine can say sure, if you insist!

You really think people who are dragged to the trenches by press gangs [1] will "capture soil"? The video is by RFERL, BTW, as Western as it gets. Not "FSB propaganda".

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnw2Abqmu64

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#34

Post by [deleted] »

nradov wrote: post #30
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Elements of the Ukranian government have apparently sort of quietly hinted that if they don't receive sufficient conventional military aid then they'll be forced to develop nuclear weapons as a last resort. Ukraine has officially denied this, but it's impossible to know how they'll react as Russia conquers more and more territory. Ukrainian leaders are quite aware that the only meaningful guarantees of continued sove…

[deleted]

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#35

Post by nradov »

MrHamburger wrote: post #19
azemetre wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad to say but the only way to be taken seriously and avoid military incursions/invasions is to hold nuclear weapons. I do wonder how nuclear disarmament will continue when it looks like obtaining nuclear arms is one of the few ways to truly achieve sovereignty and not rely on the benefactors of your neighbors. Curious if anyone has reading materials about this.

My guess is, that if USA will keep playing around and pretend that Ukraine is somebody else's problem to solve, they will find out that Eastern Europe can make a nuke too. Then what is USA going to do? Sanction Europeans? Then there is no reason to continue sanctioning Iran from Europeans perspective for exactly same thing.

Which Eastern European country do you mean? Most are already NATO members. Of those that aren't, Belarus is already a Russian client state, Serbia is too far away, and Moldova is too poor to do anything.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#37

Post by MrHamburger »

nradov wrote: post #35
MrHamburger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is, that if USA will keep playing around and pretend that Ukraine is somebody else's problem to solve, they will find out that Eastern Europe can make a nuke too. Then what is USA going to do? Sanction Europeans? Then there is no reason to continue sanctioning Iran from Europeans perspective for exactly same thing.

Which Eastern European country do you mean? Most are already NATO members. Of those that aren't, Belarus is already a Russian client state, Serbia is too far away, and Moldova is too poor to do anything.

What's the point of NATO membership, when chief elect is openly saying that he is not going to help if Russia will make move into Baltics.

Personally I would expect that Poland with cooperation with Czech Republic (they have whole nuclear research facility north of Prague) would be able to do it in short amount of time - less than 5 years.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#38

Post by N19PEDL2 »

nradov wrote: post #35
MrHamburger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is, that if USA will keep playing around and pretend that Ukraine is somebody else's problem to solve, they will find out that Eastern Europe can make a nuke too. Then what is USA going to do? Sanction Europeans? Then there is no reason to continue sanctioning Iran from Europeans perspective for exactly same thing.

Which Eastern European country do you mean? Most are already NATO members. Of those that aren't, Belarus is already a Russian client state, Serbia is too far away, and Moldova is too poor to do anything.

I am sure that Poland would be eager to develop a nuclear arsenal. Countries like Germany, Italy and Turkey could also easily develop one if they thought that the NATO nuclear umbrella was unreliable.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#39

Post by netsharc »

nradov wrote: post #35
MrHamburger wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is, that if USA will keep playing around and pretend that Ukraine is somebody else's problem to solve, they will find out that Eastern Europe can make a nuke too. Then what is USA going to do? Sanction Europeans? Then there is no reason to continue sanctioning Iran from Europeans perspective for exactly same thing.

Which Eastern European country do you mean? Most are already NATO members. Of those that aren't, Belarus is already a Russian client state, Serbia is too far away, and Moldova is too poor to do anything.

France has nukes... And my semi-educated guess would be, a NATO where a Putin-puppet leaves a US-shaped hole might get France exporting its nukes to the east quickly, in exchange for some clout.
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