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Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

nytimes.com

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Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#21

Post by nradov »

MrHamburger wrote: post #8
20after4 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are sincere then I think this must be the most reckless, unhinged proposal I've read on this website. Are you really literally suggesting to start a nuclear war with Russia?

It is quite logical. Budapest Memorandum signed in 1994 where UK, USA and Russia guaranteed sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine in exchange for nuclear weapons on Ukrainian soil which remained there after dissolution of USSR. If Russia wants to renege on Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine should get their nukes back. Also you can see another side of the coin - Iran and DPRK would need to be insane to get rid o…

The USA and Israel regard Iran as enough of a threat that they won't allow it to obtain nuclear weapons. Strikes against Iranian nuclear facilities are one of the primary missions that B-2 bomber crews train for. There's no intent to seize Iranian territory, they'll just wreck everything and leave.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#22

Post by MrHamburger »

blub wrote: post #18
MrHamburger wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is quite logical. Budapest Memorandum signed in 1994 where UK, USA and Russia guaranteed sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine in exchange for nuclear weapons on Ukrainian soil which remained there after dissolution of USSR. If Russia wants to renege on Budapest Memorandum, Ukraine should get their nukes back. Also you can see another side of the coin - Iran and DPRK would need to be insane to get rid o…

The Budapest Memorandum was a way to force a potential* nuclear player and/or nuclear wildcard out of the game. When you see it for what it is, giving Ukraine nuclear weapons is the last thing anyone (except internet posters) wants. * They didn’t control the weapons, nor could they financially afford to maintain them.

Control is very relevant here. The hardest part of nuclear weapon - plutonium core - was there. The fact that you don't have access keys from electronics which controls explosives around the plutonium core is kind of non-issue for a state actor.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#23

Post by sedan_baklazhan »

exe34 wrote: post #5
yieldcrv wrote: post #4

whats the over-under on that getting revoked in 2 months? what can be done by that military in that amount of time?

they need to capture as much Russian soil as they can, and when the orange man and the other clown tell them to freeze the border, Ukraine can say sure, if you insist!

Ukrainians loose soil everyday. I’m not sure what happens in your reality though.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#24

Post by jsiepkes »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #16

does nobody think this will risk nuclear war? Is this really a place we want to risk it? I'm amazed at the comments section here

You think letting Russia harass and invade their former vazal states is without risk? They've occupied eastern Europe until 1989. With the invasion of Crimea in 2014 they've basically only not harassed and not occupied eastern European countries for only 25 years. The only thing which provokes Russia is weakness.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#26

Post by rightbyte »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #16

does nobody think this will risk nuclear war? Is this really a place we want to risk it? I'm amazed at the comments section here

'National security' as a political question has at some point been taken over by emotional lunatics. I don't know what to say really.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#27

Post by N19PEDL2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #14
azemetre wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad to say but the only way to be taken seriously and avoid military incursions/invasions is to hold nuclear weapons. I do wonder how nuclear disarmament will continue when it looks like obtaining nuclear arms is one of the few ways to truly achieve sovereignty and not rely on the benefactors of your neighbors. Curious if anyone has reading materials about this.

Nuclear disarmament is over because, otherwise, you’re putting your nation’s sovereignty in the hands of the US electorate. Would you trust them with your life and future? I certainly wouldn’t. If you can’t trust superpowers (including the US), you have to protect and defend yourself. That’s the nuclear way (and perhaps a bit more percentage of GDP towards defense for everyone). In a civil world, it wouldn’t be neces…

Sad to say, but it's true. The US wasted the opportunity that was created by the end of the USSR.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#28

Post by stoneman24 »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #16

does nobody think this will risk nuclear war? Is this really a place we want to risk it? I'm amazed at the comments section here

Can’t really see nuclear war.

I think that Russia (Putin) thought that ukraine would collapse within days and it would be a walkover.

But it wasn’t and Zelensky bound his people together to resist the Russian army. The Russian army showed its capabilities and more surprisingly it’s huge limitations.

The oligarchy in Russia may well determine that getting rid of Putin might be less risky than letting him escalate the situation, especially if he starts talking about using even battlefield nukes.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#29

Post by jagraff »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #16

does nobody think this will risk nuclear war? Is this really a place we want to risk it? I'm amazed at the comments section here

Abandoning Ukraine risks emboldening Russia to continue their conquest of Eastern Europe - which, ultimately, increases the risk of nuclear war anyway, only with a stronger Russia with even more leverage. Being nuclear armed should not give a country license to seize any territory they wish.

Re: Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia with Long-Range U.S. Missiles

#30

Post by nradov »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Elements of the Ukranian government have apparently sort of quietly hinted that if they don't receive sufficient conventional military aid then they'll be forced to develop nuclear weapons as a last resort. Ukraine has officially denied this, but it's impossible to know how they'll react as Russia conquers more and more territory. Ukrainian leaders are quite aware that the only meaningful guarantees of continued sovereignty would be NATO membership or having their own nukes. Otherwise even if the current war is settled with some sort of truce, Russia could just rearm and attack again in a few years.

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-nuclear-bomb-1985621

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