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A Dust Over India

postmasculine.com

141–150 of 325 posts

Re: A Dust Over India

#141
post #76

I am an Indian and I find this piece quite authentic. However, the OP and most of the other foreigners who visit India, visit places or deal with people that are known to be hostile. I, as an Indian, will be utterly shocked if I visit a ghetto in downtown Detroit. Heck, there are more chances of getting mugged or shot in such ghetto. However, I will not visit such places as they are known to be hostile. India is a we…

"I, as an Indian, will be utterly shocked if I visit a ghetto in downtown Detroit." Compared to what the OP described, a "ghetto" in old Detroit would be a paradise. Also, just to point out, don't talk trash about a town unless you've been there. Detroit is finally bringing itself out of the pit. Lots of new energy running around. It's on the rise. Maybe you should visit?

Good to hear because I watched a documentary on French TV about 2 months ago focussing on Detroit and it didn't look great... drugs, gangs, foreclosures, abandoned factories and theatres etc.

Edit: just found a small clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WkfofSGFx4 [ not sure when it was filmed ]

Re: A Dust Over India

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comparison with the US was not intended to indicate complacency about the status quo. Your comment about hunger strikes underscores my point. It is completely inappropriate for any citizen of the modern US to express any indignation about the democratic process going on in another country. In the US we are given a standard explanation about other countries: Women are mistreated there, children and the poor are vic…

I think the more useful distinction between your positions is one of moral relativism vs moral absolutism, rather than neoconservatism vs (any other -ism).

Well it depends on what you focus on. Yes the differences between the two countries are relative. But they are obviously different and so it's not a stretch to realize that.

The noteworthy aspect, in my opinion, is the strong indignation felt by the author which is amplified in its absurdity by the existence of many of the very same problems in the US.

Re: A Dust Over India

#143

Hey guys, I work for Postmasculine and just wanted to jump in quickly. First, thanks for sharing this Arun2009. I've been reading HN daily for the last 9 months and love it. Amazing to open up my computer today and see us as the number one link. I believe my reaction was something like this: http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/excit... Anyway, I mainly wanted to ask what people thought of the site…

Pretty good site, and the content is refreshingly devoid of the PUA type garbage you'll read on askmen

Re: A Dust Over India

#144
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does one have to be literate to be politically active? Do you think that most US voters base their political decisions (or their decision whether or not to vote) on something they read?

I don't know why this got down-voted to hell. You raise a very valid point. That democracy has to be representative is one of its basic tenets, and you cannot have that if you shut out a large fraction of your citizens. It is very patronizing to assume that the uneducated do not know what is good for them and the educated class knows what is better for them.

Another basic tenet of democracy is that its citizens must be informed. I think it's fair to assume that those who lack access to written knowledge are at a disadvantage in this respect. For what it's worth, I upvoted the comment. Downvoting it to the point of invisibility strikes me as rather undemocratic.

Re: A Dust Over India

#145

Because India is close to the equator, the environment has a greater carrying capacity than the kinds of first-world, northern nations that the author is used to. Thus, for this reason alone, India is likely to have a different ratio of people to development, since less development is required to sustain one person's resource utilization. Contrast this to the US where much of the country is snow covered for 1/3 of th…

"Yes India's government is corrupt, but not all that much more corrupt than the US government." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/world/asia/18iht-letter18.... http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2091100,00.htm... People are holding hunger strikes to stand up against the corruption. When was the last time that happened in the US? You are rationalizing away al…

how does that justify having the poor out in the open begging for a living?

What would you do? You can't magically produce houses, schools, hospitals and other basic infrastructure to service several hundred million people. Forget that, I doubt you could engineer an efficient distribution system that just provides these people with nutritious food. Keep in mind these people are distributed across a fairly large country, belong to many different religions and speak hundreds (possibly thousands) of different languages. The majority of these folks are illiterate, and the overwhelming majority have no education beyond high school.

If you think you have a good solution to the problem, I am all ears, because I've been thinking about this for a long time and I can't see one.

Re: A Dust Over India

#147
As an Indian who has lived in North India for the entire 23 years of his existence, I can say that every single word that the author has reported is true, except one. It is not safe to roam about in wee hours not even for men. Except may be in Mumbai and a few more cities. I would advice any other visits against it.

Oh and people who have praised the word 'jugaad', in most cases it is a illegal-immoral solution. I hate it when people glorify the act. It is a reality and it is present everywhere in India - but I hope that we grow out of it.

You can divide the country into three parts: (A) The Powerful (who are always rich) (B) The not-so-rich and not-so-powerful (C) The poor and powerless. People of class (A) are leaders, businessmen and politicians who are also lawmakers. Class (B) is the middle to high income families who think political dialogue is a stinking business to be a part of. Class (C) is the overwhelming majority who vote and get paid for it - either directly or through improper political practices from caste/region/religion based arguments.

We have a huge population with few resources. We don't have enough fuel to dump our waste, not even enough ground to dump them on. We have very high unemployment and low literacy. Even the education system that we have is largely of very low quality. Cross Border Terrorism that is so not a daily part of western life is now too boring to be covered on Indian television. North India is so accustomed to it that people have even stopped demanding action - we don't think our government can take any. We also face Naxalism [1], a reality that a lot of us don't understand as it is largely based in Southern/Eastern India.

We regularly see large scale corruption ($1B+), as frequently as once every year. The culprits come back to power in a few years (An example: [2]). And people vote for them, because there is no better choice. This is unlike say USA when similar things would have been ends of political career for people involved.

BUT, please stop commenting on India as a comparison to the US and the rest of the western world. We get it, you have cleaner cities, healthier people, lesser discrimination and no unhappiness. We know it well, we live by it every day. These commentaries just seem unnecessary. We are innately handicapped in the race of development. We have started off late [3]. We have started off behind [4]. It is also very arrogant to impose your morality to the ancestors of others [5] as even if they may agree to what you say, they cannot comment on the situation in the previous era as they are unaware of the context themselves. It is very rude to use it as an argument against the present.

And let's make it clear. India is no more spiritual than any other country on earth. We just have a lot more temples and monasteries than most places. And they are also old and diverse. These exact things that attracts most westerners to India - the ancientness and the abundance, are also very closely related to what westerners hate about India. You cannot have orthodox, untainted and non-commercialized establishments without the perils of unorganized, corrupt and ill-managed institutes. Remove both, and you have a country that is working just as vigorously towards modern (and very western) ideologies and standards of living.

  [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalite
  [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fodder_Scam
  [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Independence
  [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Raj#Economic_impact
  [5] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4214998 [Sec: Sati]

Re: A Dust Over India

#148
post #41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. You have hit the nail on the head. One has to immerse oneself into the ocean of sweat, dirt and garbage to see the real india and what makes it tick. It is like swimming in an ocean of raw-sewage with a 1000 foot, 1000-headed serpent. >> The most unfortunate in India are amongst the most fatalistic - they give up trying. : This is again so true. Experienced first-hand with some of my relatives. You mig…

It has been explained to me that it is common for many indians to justify another person’s plight by believing that a condition of suffering is that person’s ‘karmic destiny.’ Therefore it would be ‘bad karma’ to help such a person.

This is just false.

I have been discouraged from helping people, mostly for the reason that it could turn out to be more trouble that it's worth, but I have never been given this reason. Also, your explanation makes no sense from a theological perspective. I've always been taught that helping people will earn you karma, so it's in your selfish interest to help those in need.

Re: A Dust Over India

#149

Reading this article reminds me a story from "The Great Indian Novel" by Shashi Tharoor that explains the present state of Indians - "A man, ... a symbol, shall we say, of people of India -- is pursued by a tiger. He runs fast, but panting heart tells him he cannot run much longer. He sees a tree. Relief! He accelerates and gets to it in one last despairing stride. He climbs the tree. The tiger snarls below him, but…

Sounds like a recipe for accruing the cultural or governmental equivalent of technical debt.

Re: A Dust Over India

#150
post #100

It is hard to give a well rounded response to the post and yet keep it short. So I will not even try. A lot has been written about India, so people who want to know more will dig deep on their own, whereas many will be happy with poverty porn . One thing that I do want to mention is that India is a very high variance country. For almost any statement one makes, there will be a un-ignorable part of the country where t…

In what way is regulatory capture corruption? What is the alternative? I'm reluctant to consider it corruption in the same sentence as bribery, despite that it is an inherent conflict of interest.

>> In what way is regulatory capture corruption?

Try getting a decent mobile data plan in Canada. It will be rapidly apparent to you.

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