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A Dust Over India

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Re: A Dust Over India

#41

Post by darien »

baseh wrote: post #27
photon137 wrote: post #14

The mistake the author made is that he lived in India for three weeks. Had he stayed for six months or a year, he'd have been able to figure out what makes India tick - India is the very embodiment of clever innovation to survive - it will ask you very tough questions and it will compel you to innovate, often rapidly, just in order to survive - not even succeed. This, in India, is known as "jugaad". He missed the "ju…

Great comment. You have hit the nail on the head. One has to immerse oneself into the ocean of sweat, dirt and garbage to see the real india and what makes it tick. It is like swimming in an ocean of raw-sewage with a 1000 foot, 1000-headed serpent. >> The most unfortunate in India are amongst the most fatalistic - they give up trying. : This is again so true. Experienced first-hand with some of my relatives. You mig…

It has been explained to me that it is common for many indians to justify another person’s plight by believing that a condition of suffering is that person’s ‘karmic destiny.’ Therefore it would be ‘bad karma’ to help such a person.

Re: A Dust Over India

#42

Post by aksbhat »

memset wrote: post #21
JonnieCache wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The salesman in a high-end TV shop taking the bus to work. This one kinda sticks out of the list. That would happen in many metropolitan centers worldwide, its simply more convenient.

This is basically what it is like commuting by bus in India: http://www.preetindersodhi.com/pictures/the-indian-bus/ Imagine being crammed in during a 100-degree+ summer just to get to and from work every day. Oof. I live in NYC; we have a very tame definition of "taking the bus" as compared to India.

Its not that bad, I took public bus to school as a thirteen year old. It was as crowded as an MTA bus. Except there is no Air Conditioning, otherwise it is not that bad. Trains however tend to be much worse, since the doors never close.

Re: A Dust Over India

#43

Post by photon137 »

darien wrote: post #41
baseh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. You have hit the nail on the head. One has to immerse oneself into the ocean of sweat, dirt and garbage to see the real india and what makes it tick. It is like swimming in an ocean of raw-sewage with a 1000 foot, 1000-headed serpent. >> The most unfortunate in India are amongst the most fatalistic - they give up trying. : This is again so true. Experienced first-hand with some of my relatives. You mig…

It has been explained to me that it is common for many indians to justify another person’s plight by believing that a condition of suffering is that person’s ‘karmic destiny.’ Therefore it would be ‘bad karma’ to help such a person.

Well, that perception, if it has been presented to you, is false. In fact, in India, whenever someone is discouraged to help someone out, the most popular argument is "Why bother? It's not your problem!" or "It'll be more trouble than it's worth" - just like anywhere else in the world.

Re: A Dust Over India

#44

Post by GeneralWaste »

free wrote: post #29
memset wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically what it is like commuting by bus in India: http://www.preetindersodhi.com/pictures/the-indian-bus/ Imagine being crammed in during a 100-degree+ summer just to get to and from work every day. Oof. I live in NYC; we have a very tame definition of "taking the bus" as compared to India.

Come on, that picture is more exception than the norm. I travelled by bus for years when I was in school and college. There are definitely people hanging near the doors but nowhere as close as to what you mentioned in the picture.

That picture is definitely o lot busier than average but in my experience the majority of urban buses were unpleasantly hot and crowded in India, particularly during the rush hour. I avoided using them if at all possible, and I generally really enjoyed most of the other forms of transport on offer there, especially the more dirty and dangerous ones.

Re: A Dust Over India

#45

Post by J3L2404 »

darien wrote: post #41
baseh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. You have hit the nail on the head. One has to immerse oneself into the ocean of sweat, dirt and garbage to see the real india and what makes it tick. It is like swimming in an ocean of raw-sewage with a 1000 foot, 1000-headed serpent. >> The most unfortunate in India are amongst the most fatalistic - they give up trying. : This is again so true. Experienced first-hand with some of my relatives. You mig…

It has been explained to me that it is common for many indians to justify another person’s plight by believing that a condition of suffering is that person’s ‘karmic destiny.’ Therefore it would be ‘bad karma’ to help such a person.

That is truly horrible.

Re: A Dust Over India

#46

Post by JonnieCache »

GeneralWaste wrote: post #44
free wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, that picture is more exception than the norm. I travelled by bus for years when I was in school and college. There are definitely people hanging near the doors but nowhere as close as to what you mentioned in the picture.

That picture is definitely o lot busier than average but in my experience the majority of urban buses were unpleasantly hot and crowded in India, particularly during the rush hour. I avoided using them if at all possible, and I generally really enjoyed most of the other forms of transport on offer there, especially the more dirty and dangerous ones.

Try using the london underground in summer. It gets a lot hotter than 100 degrees. It gets dangerously crowded sometimes too.

EDIT: Oh shit, it's you. You should know, heh.

Re: A Dust Over India

#47

Post by JonnieCache »

photon137 wrote: post #43
darien wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been explained to me that it is common for many indians to justify another person’s plight by believing that a condition of suffering is that person’s ‘karmic destiny.’ Therefore it would be ‘bad karma’ to help such a person.

Well, that perception, if it has been presented to you, is false. In fact, in India, whenever someone is discouraged to help someone out, the most popular argument is "Why bother? It's not your problem!" or "It'll be more trouble than it's worth" - just like anywhere else in the world.

Surely the belief in karma/reincarnation and the caste system are mutually reinforcing on some level though?

EDIT: But the part about it being "bad karma" to help some people and not others, that definitely sounds like somebody has misunderstood somewhere.

Re: A Dust Over India

#48

Post by photon137 »

JonnieCache wrote: post #47
photon137 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that perception, if it has been presented to you, is false. In fact, in India, whenever someone is discouraged to help someone out, the most popular argument is "Why bother? It's not your problem!" or "It'll be more trouble than it's worth" - just like anywhere else in the world.

Surely the belief in karma/reincarnation and the caste system are mutually reinforcing on some level though? EDIT: But the part about it being "bad karma" to help some people and not others, that definitely sounds like somebody has misunderstood somewhere.

Well, the caste system exists and the inequalities exist - but they exist purely due to economic and political incentives.

Belief in karma and reincarnation has got nothing to do with it. And even the victims of this system know this.

Re: A Dust Over India

#49

Post by hsuresh »

powertower wrote: post #11

I think I understand now why India has historically been the place that produced enlightenment, at a greater rate than other countries have.... Out of necessity. It's hard to live in an environment like that without witnessing the game of life (the suffering), and hopefully, existing out of it. And I don't mean the suffering of the poor, but also of the rich, the middle class, and everyone else there, that's a piece…

Well, keep in mind that India was fairly rich till before the colonisation. From wikipedia[1], according to the Indian Prime Minister:

"There is no doubt that our grievances against the British Empire had a sound basis. As the painstaking statistical work of the Cambridge historian Angus Maddison has shown, India's share of world income collapsed from 22.6% in 1700, almost equal to Europe's share of 23.3% at that time, to as low as 3.8% in 1952. Indeed, at the beginning of the 20th century, "the brightest jewel in the British Crown" was the poorest country in the world in terms of per capita income."

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India#section_2

Re: A Dust Over India

#50

Post by kodablah »

grandalf wrote: post #31

Because India is close to the equator, the environment has a greater carrying capacity than the kinds of first-world, northern nations that the author is used to. Thus, for this reason alone, India is likely to have a different ratio of people to development, since less development is required to sustain one person's resource utilization. Contrast this to the US where much of the country is snow covered for 1/3 of th…

Why are the generalizations about dishonesty offensive? The author seems to draw conclusions from his experiences and those around him. Much of your comment seems akin to "Yes, there are bad problems, but look over there, they have problems too."

The defense against the poverty or dishonesty arguments shouldn't just be a juxtaposition against the US.

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