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The cochlear implant question

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Re: The cochlear implant question

#41

Post by Etheryte »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #33
rincebrain wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people who have their feet in multiple commonly "either/or" cultures have written quite a lot about the struggle to establish their own identity given those cultures framing many things in terms of, for lack of a better word, sole/primary membership. I'm not sure anyone can say better or worse, in a useful fashion, objectively - more options can also lead to more ambiguity and stress, as with anythin…

"Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say I think any of what I just described is "good"" Yes, this has been the problem. Many in the Deaf Community do not see being deaf as "bad", but that is the label society has put on them.

I mean, why would they? It would only create negative emotions, but it wouldn't have any positive impact on anything. Feeling bad about a condition can be useful if it can propel you to improve the situation, e.g. if you're an alcoholic and you feel bad about it, you might stop drinking. But for conditions where it's out of your control and there is no cure, framing it as bad does not do any good. No one needs to wallow in self pity thinking oh if only I was born different, especially if they can lead rich and fulfilling lives.

Re: The cochlear implant question

#42

Post by keiferski »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #32
keiferski wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people that speak say, Chinese and American English, don’t have two different cultures?

Knowing ASL does not make me Deaf. And knowing Mandarin does not make me Chinese.

Obviously my example was for someone that grew up speaking Chinese and American English natively, as in a person of Chinese descent that grew up in America. There are millions of such people.

I think you're missing the point entirely.

Re: The cochlear implant question

#43

Post by plondon514 »

As the hearing brother of a deaf sister with hearing parents, what I usually tell people is to learn sign language and get the cochlear. Forcing only cochlear on the child means that the family does not live in the deaf world with their child, while only speaking SL might distance them and cause them to miss out on a lot in the hearing world.

It reminds me of basque spain, where everyone speaks catalan and some people continue to speak euskera at home or with friends they know can speak.

Re: The cochlear implant question

#45

Post by bluGill »

keiferski wrote: post #9
robin_reala wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article talks about the capital-D Deaf community. It’s not just a different language, it’s a different culture.

And people that speak say, Chinese and American English, don’t have two different cultures?

Language does not make the culture. There are many deaf people who are not part of the Deaf culture. There are many people who have heard all their life but are also part of the Deaf culture.

There are many different cultures in the US. Some are more similar than others. There is a Chinese culture in the US - as someone not part of it I'm content to call it one, but I'm sure those in it know of differences that I cannot see.

Re: The cochlear implant question

#46

Post by bluGill »

Etheryte wrote: post #41
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say I think any of what I just described is "good"" Yes, this has been the problem. Many in the Deaf Community do not see being deaf as "bad", but that is the label society has put on them.

I mean, why would they? It would only create negative emotions, but it wouldn't have any positive impact on anything. Feeling bad about a condition can be useful if it can propel you to improve the situation, e.g. if you're an alcoholic and you feel bad about it, you might stop drinking. But for conditions where it's out of your control and there is no cure, framing it as bad does not do any good. No one needs to wal…

More importantly, by framing it as a thing (not good or bad just is) they can find ways around the issues. They can live their life just fine. Sure there are some things you cannot do without hearing, but there are more things to do in life than there is time anyway so there isn't a problem. You can't enjoy a symphony concert, but there are a lot of people who could do that yet don't. You can still enjoy a baseball game with those people, or if you don't like baseball - many others don't was well, just ...

Re: The cochlear implant question

#47

Post by James_K »

I feel like the narrative around disabled people has advanced to the point where some now insist that they aren't disabled. In reality, it's a pretty objective fact that being disabled means being unable to do something. It is a net negative on someone's quality of life. I'd be jolly pissed off if my parent decided not to get me an implant that enabled me to hear just because someone had told them that being deaf was actually the same as being able to hear. Give the kid the hearing aid, and if they don't like it they can take it out later.

There are plenty of things where this "different, not worse" narrative holds up. Children with autism or ADHD might struggle in some ways, but be better off in others. It seems clear that there is no objective reason they are worse than a neurotypical person, so if a "cure" to these conditions was developed, you would have some degree of moral quandary. But someone without hearing is just objectively worse off than someone with it, the same way someone without legs is worse off than someone with legs.

The last part is what really gets me about this. The child values the hearing aid so highly that they literally hug it as they go to sleep, and this is somehow presented as a "both sides are right" outcome. To me at least, that's a pretty conclusive endorsement that kids should be given these things.

Re: The cochlear implant question

#48

Post by mezzie2 »

bluGill wrote: post #38
mezzie2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or if you have to talk to a visually impaired person. My vision impairments are on the very mild end of the spectrum, but they're still enough to prevent any effective use of or learning of sign.

I have "met" people who are both blind and deaf. They use sign language by putting their hand on the hand of the signer and follow that way. (I only know a couple signs so it wasn't worth trying to talk to them except via interpreter and so saying I've met them is a bit strong) This also is proof that sign language works in the dark.

ASL (and sign language generally) and tactile sign are two different languages, and language types that are at least as different as verbal languages and seen/sign languages - an American deafblind person who uses tactile sign and meets someone who uses ASL isn't necessarily going to be able to communicate with them. The signs and underlying language structure (morphology/syntax/etc.) are all different. I wouldn't consider the existence of tactile sign to mean that sign language works in the dark because they're two different language types, but the terminology is confusing and I have a linguistics background so I don't know if the author was including tactile sign or not. I'd guess not since it's about teaching his daughter who is d/Deaf, not deafblind, and tactile sign isn't in much use outside of the deafblind community. d/Deaf and blind people don't use it much, I believe.

Re: The cochlear implant question

#49

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

bluGill wrote: post #38
mezzie2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or if you have to talk to a visually impaired person. My vision impairments are on the very mild end of the spectrum, but they're still enough to prevent any effective use of or learning of sign.

I have "met" people who are both blind and deaf. They use sign language by putting their hand on the hand of the signer and follow that way. (I only know a couple signs so it wasn't worth trying to talk to them except via interpreter and so saying I've met them is a bit strong) This also is proof that sign language works in the dark.

That is so painful to hear. Having those two disabilities at the same time cut you out of so much of the world

Re: The cochlear implant question

#50

Post by cbsks »

robin_reala wrote: post #6
paulryanrogers wrote: post #3

> it is unarguable that only signed languages are easily accessible in all situations Even in the dark? Or at a distance? Or not facing the signer? Or with arthritis? Differently abled folks are entitled to their own culture and beliefs. Yet claims like that seem to be trying too hard to find a silver lining.

I’ve seen two signers on a train platform pause their conversation while one got on the train, then carry on through the window after they’d found a seat. While the article is hyperbolic, there are pros and cons to all modes of communication.

I went on a scuba dive trip with a couple of deaf people and I was definitely jealous.
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