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The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

theguardian.com

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Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually overall agree with your point, but to be fair the off topic remark probably was targeted at this bit of pseudoscience that unfortunately dominated Soviet politics for decades, and its influence in Soviet and Chinese agricultural policy ultimately contributed to the death of millions of people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko#Repression_of_b... https://en…

May I please remind you of Turing's fate in the land of Freedom and Science?

Turing was punished (effectively tortured to death) for his sexuality. While awful and indefensible, the difference is that he was not punished for his scientific / engineering work. There are countless examples of soviet scientists exiled or executed because their research agenda or conclusions conflicted with state ideology in a given period. You'd be hard pressed to find similar examples in the West. Although there have been examples in recent decades of scientists being silenced by right wing administrations - particularly around climate change related public communication. Funding can of course be politically directed and denied. But imprisonment or execution for studying the 'wrong' thing? Not one of the many flaws of Western hypercapitalism.

Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#32
post #29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't seed banks need regular refreshing?

Seed banks are mostly self-refreshing. Seed viability decline during storage is measured and modelled for. A sample of seeds is taken out of storage and grown to breed a new batch of seeds after an amount of time based on the rate of decline of that sample. So a batch that loses 20% viability every 5 years will be regrown to seed after a shorter amount of time than one that loses 2% viability every 5 years. Source: w…

I'm the context of this comment chain, you're agreeing with the parent comment with a tone of disagreement. Yes, seed banks need periodic attention (whether you call that refreshing or self-refreshing or whatever), so you couldn't stick a bunch of seeds on the moon and just leave them there.

Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I please remind you of Turing's fate in the land of Freedom and Science?

Turing was punished (effectively tortured to death) for his sexuality. While awful and indefensible, the difference is that he was not punished for his scientific / engineering work. There are countless examples of soviet scientists exiled or executed because their research agenda or conclusions conflicted with state ideology in a given period. You'd be hard pressed to find similar examples in the West. Although ther…

>But imprisonment or execution for studying the 'wrong' thing?

This is extremely simple. Israel openly and proudly kills Iranian scientists, at least 5 were killed in last decades, precisely for the reason of their scientific work.

What, there are other reasons why this is a very right thing to do, am I right? I guess you will present me with lots of reasons why these scientists should have been killed.

We clearly got Good and Bad scientists in this world. The ones that the West kills are Bad. The ones that USSR once killed are Good.

Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#35
post #29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't seed banks need regular refreshing?

Seed banks are mostly self-refreshing. Seed viability decline during storage is measured and modelled for. A sample of seeds is taken out of storage and grown to breed a new batch of seeds after an amount of time based on the rate of decline of that sample. So a batch that loses 20% viability every 5 years will be regrown to seed after a shorter amount of time than one that loses 2% viability every 5 years. Source: w…

What is the meaning of "self-refreshing" there, though? That sounds like a lot of work.

Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#36
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turing was punished (effectively tortured to death) for his sexuality. While awful and indefensible, the difference is that he was not punished for his scientific / engineering work. There are countless examples of soviet scientists exiled or executed because their research agenda or conclusions conflicted with state ideology in a given period. You'd be hard pressed to find similar examples in the West. Although ther…

>But imprisonment or execution for studying the 'wrong' thing? This is extremely simple. Israel openly and proudly kills Iranian scientists, at least 5 were killed in last decades, precisely for the reason of their scientific work. What, there are other reasons why this is a very right thing to do, am I right? I guess you will present me with lots of reasons why these scientists should have been killed. We clearly go…

> This is extremely simple. Israel openly and proudly kills Iranian scientists, at least 5 were killed in last decades, precisely for the reason of their scientific work.

Engineers, for their engineering work.

Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#38
post #29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't seed banks need regular refreshing?

Seed banks are mostly self-refreshing. Seed viability decline during storage is measured and modelled for. A sample of seeds is taken out of storage and grown to breed a new batch of seeds after an amount of time based on the rate of decline of that sample. So a batch that loses 20% viability every 5 years will be regrown to seed after a shorter amount of time than one that loses 2% viability every 5 years. Source: w…

How does that work with apple trees and such?

My understanding is you could have a fantastic apple seed, grow it into a fantastic tree with fantastic fruit, but then the next generation grown from its seeds might be nearly inedible. And that all the delicious fruit we eat comes from grafted trees as a result of this.

Also, more generally, lots of trees are huge, so presumably you aren’t growing them in a cave or mine shaft. How is that handled?

Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#39

What kind of cabbage is that? I mean look at their size.

um, a normal one? it looks exactly what I've seen on my grandmother's garden patch in my childhood. It's just that size is not very practical for supermarkets and a small family consumption, so current selection and harvesting methods go in the opposite direction.

Re: The Leningrad botanists who saved the first seed bank

#40
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seed banks are mostly self-refreshing. Seed viability decline during storage is measured and modelled for. A sample of seeds is taken out of storage and grown to breed a new batch of seeds after an amount of time based on the rate of decline of that sample. So a batch that loses 20% viability every 5 years will be regrown to seed after a shorter amount of time than one that loses 2% viability every 5 years. Source: w…

I'm the context of this comment chain, you're agreeing with the parent comment with a tone of disagreement. Yes, seed banks need periodic attention (whether you call that refreshing or self-refreshing or whatever), so you couldn't stick a bunch of seeds on the moon and just leave them there.

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