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Looking for a Job Is Tough

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Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#201

Post by ryandrake »

joshuaturner wrote: post #62
rsanek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're giving remote interviews, your loop should assume candidates can use AI. it's like giving a take home math test that assumes people won't use calculators at this point

I disagree. We pretty explicitly ask candidates to not use AI. While it's fine when doing the job the purpose of the interview is to gauge your ability to understand and solve problems, while AI can help you with that you understanding how to do it yourself signals that you'll be able to solve other more complex wider-spanning problems. Just like with a calculator - it's important for candidates to know _why_ somethi…

Asking candidates: "Don't use AI" is like all those other arbitrary handicaps that interviewers used to (and sometimes still do) weirdly insist on:

"Write this code, but don't read the API definition (like a normal developer would do in the course of their work)"

"Whiteboard this CRUD app, but don't verify you did it right using online sources (like a normal developer would do in the course of their work)"

"Type this function out in a text document so that you don't have the benefit of Intellisense (like a normal developer would have in the course of their work)"

"Design this algorithm, but don't pull up the research paper that describes it (like a normal developer would do in the course of their work)"

You're testing a developer under constraints that nobody actually has to actually work under. It's like asking a prospective carpenter to build you a doghouse without using a tape measure.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#202

Post by dvsjr »

thw09j9m wrote: post #18

This is the toughest market I've ever seen. I easily made it to on-sites at FAANG a few years ago and now I'm getting resume rejected by no-name startups (and FAANG). The bar has also been raised significantly. I had an interview recently where I solved the algorithm question very quickly, but didn't refactor/clean up my code perfectly and was rejected.

2009 recession no work for almost two years tough?

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#203

Post by randomdata »

mock-possum wrote: post #176
tasuki wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Makes me want to become a gardener Why not?

You can’t make $85 an hour playing with your computer as a gardener (Although, apparently it’s not likely you can you do it as a dev in today’s market so)

> You can’t make $85 an hour playing with your computer as a gardener

But if you step up to being a farmer then you'll be playing with way more interesting computers than you'll find on a typical desk.

> (Although, apparently it’s not likely you can you do it as a dev in today’s market so)

Farming isn't in good economic shape right now either, granted.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#204

Post by [deleted] »

dvsjr wrote: post #202
thw09j9m wrote: post #18

This is the toughest market I've ever seen. I easily made it to on-sites at FAANG a few years ago and now I'm getting resume rejected by no-name startups (and FAANG). The bar has also been raised significantly. I had an interview recently where I solved the algorithm question very quickly, but didn't refactor/clean up my code perfectly and was rejected.

2009 recession no work for almost two years tough?

[deleted]

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#205

Post by randomdata »

dvsjr wrote: post #202
thw09j9m wrote: post #18

This is the toughest market I've ever seen. I easily made it to on-sites at FAANG a few years ago and now I'm getting resume rejected by no-name startups (and FAANG). The bar has also been raised significantly. I had an interview recently where I solved the algorithm question very quickly, but didn't refactor/clean up my code perfectly and was rejected.

2009 recession no work for almost two years tough?

Or 1930s Great Depression no work for almost five years tough?

I expect most people here won't have a good sense for 2009. While it wasn't great for many industries, for tech it was the "app" boom. You couldn't hardly go outside without someone throwing money at you.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#206

Post by lurking_swe »

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #170
thw09j9m wrote: post #18

This is the toughest market I've ever seen. I easily made it to on-sites at FAANG a few years ago and now I'm getting resume rejected by no-name startups (and FAANG). The bar has also been raised significantly. I had an interview recently where I solved the algorithm question very quickly, but didn't refactor/clean up my code perfectly and was rejected.

My observation as well. Going remote makes it harder to switch jobs because of loosing the personal connections and networks that get developed working on site. Going through the front door when applying for opportunities is usually more difficult than the back door. Back door as in getting introduced via your network. As a result, I've learned that a good recruiter is now a necessity because they have those relation…

my experience must be an outlier. I’ve applied and gotten the job via the “front door” 3 times in my 10 year career so far. This is in the US at large companies, 2 of them with competitive salaries, 2 fully remote. The last one was at the end of 2022, right as the market was turning to shit.

I probably _could_ get a job more easily today because i’ve made connections over 10 yrs. But i’d probably still try the front door first because i’m stubborn lol. But the resume needs to be PERFECT when there’s so much competition, especially for remote roles. Everything on 1 page, needs to be very easy for a hiring manager to visually scan in 10 seconds, to make a quick decision. And obviously add necessary keywords for the stupid “resume filters”. It’s a real chore…

I will say though, there’s something really rewarding about getting the job you want without asking for favors.

It’s tough out there today. Many experienced engineers were laid off, i bet it’s brutal.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#207

Post by raydev »

randunel wrote: post #114
briandear wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bar has been lowered in many respects. 14 years experience, 5 of them at a FAANG. Successful startup exit for a small company I founded, and and endless array of India-based recruiters that, for example, want me to mention “Ruby 3.2” in my resume when the resume says I have 14 years of Ruby experience including using it daily in my present job. I could literally say “I invented Ruby and have worked with it daily…

You're describing the effects of normalising remote work. Employees now are able to work from anywhere in the world, so companies get employees from all over the world. Since we're already looking at employing anywhere, why not also contract from anywhere?

Normalizing remote work requires lowering standards for getting interviews and roles?

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#208

Post by deepsquirrelnet »

smileysteve wrote: post #196

To blame the the macro / US policies, 2 key things are impacting technology - The end of 0% interest rates - The 5 year amortization of the R&D tax credit as part of the 2017 Tax Act (versus same year since 1981)

Nailed it. CPI is turning down to a lower slope, but the Fed is suggesting that it’s still going to be a bit before the rates really cool off.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#209

Post by randomdata »

Izkata wrote: post #115
randomdata wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an interesting dichotomy in your interview process. You say you want someone who can solve problems, but then go on to say (perhaps unintentionally; communication is hard) that you only want someone who has already rote-memorized how to solve the particular problems you throw at them, not someone who can figure things out as the problems arise.

> but then go on to say (perhaps unintentionally; communication is hard) that you only want someone who has already rote-memorized how to solve the particular problems you throw at them They said the opposite of that. Unless you think it's not possible to figure out problems and you can only do them by rote memorization?

> Unless you think it's not possible to figure out problems and you can only do them by rote memorization?

It is not possible to solve a problem from scratch. You must first invent the universe, as they say. Any solution you come up with for a new problem will build upon solutions others have made for earlier problems.

In the current age, under a real-world scenario, you are going to use AI to help discover those earlier solutions on which to build upon. Before AI you would have consulted a live human instead. But humans, while not what we consider artificial, are what we consider intelligent and therefore presumably fall under the same rule, so that distinction is moot anyway.

Which means that, without access to the necessary tools during the interview, any pre-existing solution you might need to build upon needs to be memorized beforehand. If you fail to remember, or didn't build up memories of the right thing, before going into the interview, then you can't possibly solve the problem, even if you are quite capable of problem solving. Thus, it ends up being a test of memory, not a test of problem solving ability.

And for what? AI fundamentally cannot solve new problems anyway. At best, it can repeat solutions to old problems already solved, but why on earth would you be trying to solve problems already solved in the first place? That is a pointless waste of time, and a severe economic drain for the business. Being able to repeat solutions to problems already solved is not a useful employment skill.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#210

Post by commandlinefan »

friggeri wrote: post #3

One piece of advice I usually give is to avoid applying to jobs through company’s career websites or LinkedIn. Instead, tap your social network: see if there is someone you know/have worked with who either works at the company you’re interested in or is connected to it someone (as an advisor, investor, personal friend of someone in a leadership position) and ask them for a warm intro. Social proof gives you an advant…

> tap your social network

People have been saying that since I was in school in the 90's. I've never found it to be helpful. In fact, even back in the days when there were still jobs to be had, by far the worst jobs I ever held were the ones I was referred into. The reason was pretty obvious at the time - the person who referred me in had to "talk me up" so I was starting in a position where I could only disappoint. The "cold applications" didn't have huge expectations, so when I turned out to be good at what I was doing, they were happy to see it.

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