Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

fbi.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 157 posts

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#131

Post by morpheuskafka »

clwg wrote: post #35

I was working with MISP[0], an open-source threat intelligence sharing platform, and came across a really interesting dataset from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute on China's technology research institutions[1]. I liked the data so much I built a quick cross-filter visualization on top of it to help explore it[2]. The data offers a fairly comprehensive and interesting perspective on China's research prioriti…

I came across that group (ASPI) before and wasn’t too impressed.

Their name suggests they are a public agency—in fact, though sponsored by the AUS defence ministry, they are non-governmental and funded in part by weapons manufacturers and foreign governments.

Their project [0] describes numerous civilian universities as “very high risk,” unnecessarily raising fears that ordinary Chinese students and researchers are dangerous.

Especially since students uni choices are heavily determined by gaokao scores, I don’t think placing labels on people based on their undergrad uni as if they handpicked them for whatever defense connections they may have makes any sense.

This is what the US is doing with Proclamation 10043 under both Trump I and Biden. Steven Miller, who will be returning to a similar role in Trump II, recently suggested banning all Chinese citizens from student visas in the US, demonstrating this irresponsible rhetorics effect.

Moreover, Australia is basically a vassal state of the US for intelligence matters—-see the debate about whether the CIA ousted the only prime minister to question the NSA’s Pine Gap facility on Australian soil. [1]

[0] https://unitracker.aspi.org.au/universities/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_CIA_involvement_in_the...

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#132

Post by [deleted] »

sailfast wrote: post #18
toomuchtodo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they leveraging CALEA mandated infrastructure. https://www.techdirt.com/2024/10/16/wyden-calea-hack-proves-... https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_f... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_...

Can you imagine if the proponents of the Clipper Chip had actually won the argument? Yeesh. This is inexcusable.

[deleted]

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#133

Post by morpheuskafka »

TechDebtDevin wrote: post #46
churchill wrote: post #4

Whenever I see these news & FBI releases about Chinese state-sponsored hackers breaching systems in America, I wonder whether the same thing happens over there: American malware and hacker groups attacking & laying landmines in China's internet infrastructure, although the Chinese may not publicize these exploits because their system opts to maintain an air of invincibility.

Yes, the US famously has breached foreign infrastructure. In Confessions of an Economic Hitman[0], Josh Perkins discusses how he knows on good authority the US could shutdown the Japanese electrical grid with relative ease if needed, which an ally. Imagine what they do to perceived enemies. [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2159.Confessions_of_an_E... This book was on of my favorite books to site in extemporan…

The US famously compromised the Greek phone switches a while back, which were written in Erlang and thus so was the malware (correction--it was actually the proprietary predecessor to Erland, called PLEX). An telecom employee died under mysterious circumstances in the aftermath and the US Embassy in Athens was found to have close ties to the individuals involved; a CIA employee was later charged and fled back to the US. All in a days work for the "leaders of the free world."

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#135

Post by mikrotikker »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #133
TechDebtDevin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the US famously has breached foreign infrastructure. In Confessions of an Economic Hitman[0], Josh Perkins discusses how he knows on good authority the US could shutdown the Japanese electrical grid with relative ease if needed, which an ally. Imagine what they do to perceived enemies. [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2159.Confessions_of_an_E... This book was on of my favorite books to site in extemporan…

The US famously compromised the Greek phone switches a while back, which were written in Erlang and thus so was the malware (correction--it was actually the proprietary predecessor to Erland, called PLEX). An telecom employee died under mysterious circumstances in the aftermath and the US Embassy in Athens was found to have close ties to the individuals involved; a CIA employee was later charged and fled back to the…

Wasn't it that the Greek govt allowed the NSA in to monitor the Olympics but they overstayed their welcome?

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#136

Post by medo-bear »

tivert wrote: post #123
medo-bear wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive also heard that China has many more people living in it than the US. Ive also heard that Chinese higher education system is state funded

> Ive also heard that China has many more people living in it than the US. Ive also heard that Chinese higher education system is state funded So? It kinds sounds like you're making an excuse, but excuses don't do anything to address the capability difference caused by the larger number of personnel.

The US used to be by far the largest country in the developed world. It could be argued that sheer numbers allowed it to succeed and dominate throughout the previous century. Today the US is no longer the largest country in the developed world, not by a long shot

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#137

Post by PittleyDunkin »

equestria wrote: post #130
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The one thing that's true for China is that their government has far fewer qualms about hacking Western infrastructure to get dirt on dissidents, steal IP, and so on. But that's a matter of ethics and law, not tech. As opposed to the DoD, which strictly fights for freedom, liberty, and democracy?

> As opposed to the DoD, which strictly fights for freedom, liberty, and democracy? Yes, the whataboutism is unwarranted here. The US government is no angel, but is far more constrained in this regard. The bar to become "the enemy of the state" is much higher - for example, your comment won't get you in trouble here. The US government also wouldn't, say, hack Spotify and snoop on their business plans to prop up a com…

> The bar to become "the enemy of the state" is much higher - for example, your comment won't get you in trouble here.

I think you're drastically overestimating the effect of being sarcastic about jingoistic rhetoric on the chinese internet. I imagine China, much like the DoD, is quite proud of their ability to penetrate systems and cause havoc.

> The US government also wouldn't, say, hack Spotify and snoop on their business plans to prop up a competing US startup - something that is commonplace with the Chinese intelligence apparatus.

I can't imagine there's much worth taking from Spotify. Meanwhile, if you think the US won't steal technology from China when there's something worth stealing, you're a massive fool.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#140

Post by tivert »

medo-bear wrote: post #136
tivert wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ive also heard that China has many more people living in it than the US. Ive also heard that Chinese higher education system is state funded So? It kinds sounds like you're making an excuse, but excuses don't do anything to address the capability difference caused by the larger number of personnel.

The US used to be by far the largest country in the developed world. It could be argued that sheer numbers allowed it to succeed and dominate throughout the previous century. Today the US is no longer the largest country in the developed world, not by a long shot

What's your point? Your comment doesn't really address anything relevant regarding the US's goals and positioning to achieve them.

For instance, if the US wants to to secure its networks and be able to respond effectively to hacking threats from its geopolitical rivals, it may have to invest proportionally more of its human resources in infosec to remain competitive. I see no good reason why it can't do that.

Also, noting that one reason China may be ahead in infosec is because it may have many more people working in that area was to rebut claims that "China is ahead in infosec" was "fearmongering."

In short, China having a larger population may be one reason why they're ahead, but that why is not very relevant to decisions about what to do about it.

Post reply on HN