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Looking for a Job Is Tough

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Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#131

Post by tartoran »

lapcat wrote: post #95
jarsin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devs in there 40's and 50's are probably the most valuable devs on earth. We grew up with computers and had to adapt to our rapidly changing industry. I suspect we will see startup founders trending older if it isn't already happening. Companies stuck in the old way of thinking that older is slower will probably be disrupted in the next recession.

It's interesting how much stereotyping is happening in these replies. The fact is that there's nothing unique about any age group, and the only difference between them is their birth dates. Intragenerational differences are always larger than intergenerational differences. In any age group, there are varying degrees of competence, varying degrees of attitude, varying degrees of personal circumstances (e.g., home, fam…

I think the OP was referring to experience not age. Older devs have seen the landscape change so much and if it makes full circle again that experience will pay off.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#132

Post by randomdata »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #126
randomdata wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an interesting dichotomy in your interview process. You say you want someone who can solve problems, but then go on to say (perhaps unintentionally; communication is hard) that you only want someone who has already rote-memorized how to solve the particular problems you throw at them, not someone who can figure things out as the problems arise.

> you only want someone who has already rote-memorized how to solve the particular problems you throw at them, not someone who can figure things out as the problems arise This is literally what AI is, and why they don't want it used in the interview.

Literally someone (or, at least, some thing) that can figure things out as problems arise? That seems quite generous. Unless you're solving a "problem" that has already been solved a million times before, it won't have a clue. These so-called AIs are predictive text generators, not thinking machines. But there is no need to solve a problem that is already solved in the first place, so...

It is really good at being a "college professor" that you can bounce ideas off of, though. It is not going to give you the solution (it fundamentally can't), but it can serve to help guide you. Stuff like "A similar problem was solved with , perhaps there is an adaptation there for you to consider?"

We're long past a world where one can solve problems in a vacuum. You haven't been able to do that for thousands, if not millions, of years. All new problems are solved by standing on the shoulders of problems that were solved previously. One needs resources to understand those older problems and their solutions to pave the way to solving the present problems. So... If you can't use the tools we have for that during the interview, all you can lean on is what you were able to memorize beforehand.

But that doesn't end up measuring problem solving ability, just your ability to memorize and your foresight in memorizing the right thing.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#133

Post by scott_w »

trentnix wrote: post #50
realityfactchex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weirded how, if you don't mind elaborating slightly? For example, does it mean: the actual skill level (e.g., smartness) people actually look for and hire hasn't changed, but the activities that hiring teams require candidates to have experience with are (seemingly weirdly) not a great thing to need anyway and therefore lots of great candidates end up twiddling their thumbs? In that way, the "height" of the bar is th…

Many companies are filtering candidates in favor of mercenaries while pretending they are looking for dependable, committed professionals. If you don’t have specific experience with some CTOs favorite esoteric API or don’t have experience in the same, specific corner of some insurance or usury industry, your ability to actually engineer solutions is considered irrelevant. It’s as if the industry has forgotten that bu…

> It’s as if the industry has forgotten that building software is about...

This really isn't new. A look at Slashdot will give you similar complaints as far back as at least the 2000s. I'm sure someone older than me will dig up Usenet posts with exactly the same complaints and tell me to get off their lawn ;-)

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#134

Post by jjav »

joshuaturner wrote: post #62
rsanek wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're giving remote interviews, your loop should assume candidates can use AI. it's like giving a take home math test that assumes people won't use calculators at this point

I disagree. We pretty explicitly ask candidates to not use AI. While it's fine when doing the job the purpose of the interview is to gauge your ability to understand and solve problems, while AI can help you with that you understanding how to do it yourself signals that you'll be able to solve other more complex wider-spanning problems. Just like with a calculator - it's important for candidates to know _why_ somethi…

> Just like with a calculator - it's important for candidates to know _why_ something works and be able to demonstrate that as much as them knowing the solution.

And this is why I never give coding-puzzle interviews. I just have a chat about your past projects (based on resume). We'll go deep into the technical details and it is easy in such a conversation to get a feel for whether you actually contributed significantly to the things the resume says you did.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#135

Post by bluefirebrand »

nickd2001 wrote: post #75
drillsteps5 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Devs in there 40's and 50's are probably the most valuable devs on earth. Over 50 seeker here (25+ years experience, first IC then mgmt). All of hiring managers I've dealt with this time around are at least 10 years my junior, and they disagree with you. They view me as a risk (higher compensation, less "hungry", higher "flight risk") and prefer people their age or younger. Don't call it ageism though, that's just…

As someone similar age, if I was job-seeking like you, then if a younger potential boss gave these vibes, I'd be up-front. Seems to me salary can't increase for ever. Sure, more experience may lead to better design decisions which save employers a fortune. However, it's kind of opaque. "Best devs on earth" may be true, but doesn't mean its obvious to management. Maybe they won't pay a higher salary immediately than t…

> Maybe they won't pay a higher salary immediately than to a 30-yr-old, but they'll give you a reward later if they can see how much you helped them

I don't think most companies behave this way. Maybe at one point they did, but I find the reward for doing great work is "That's why we hired you"

Yeah maybe you get a yearly raise and a bonus but it never is big enough to make up for taking a lower salary

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#136

Post by lotsoweiners »

purple-leafy wrote: post #59

It’s insanely tough. I’m currently searching. For context - I’ve made 4 personal projects that currently have over 1000+ daily active users (numbers are ~1500, ~6000, ~14,000, and ~430,000) all created within the span of the last year. I’ve also sold software. On top of all that, I have an Engineering degree, 4 years experience, no breaks in employment, study on my afternoons and weekends (C, Go, C#) and take extra u…

Just trying to play devils advocate here but have you considered that your lack of “coasting” could be part of the problem? If your resume looks anything like this post then that is something to consider.

Your side projects could give the impression that you are more dedicated to those than to your primary employer.

For the roles I review resumes for and interview I want a well rounded individual who seems like they would stay in the position for many years. Someone who is studying on weekends and taking extra university courses on coding does not necessarily give me that impression. Again, just a devil’s advocate position.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#137

Post by GenerWork »

zxexz wrote: post #35
GenerWork wrote: post #28

I've been unemployed for 4 months. While I have received a job offer, it would require me to move and either sell my house, rent it out, or just continue to pay the mortgage on top of rent. I'm torn as to what to do as I do need a job, but I don't want to leave my friends and family. My thoughts go out to everybody else out there looking for a job at this time.

Is it in a position where, if remote work would be possible, regardless of corporate policy?

Unfortunately I've been told in no uncertain terms that it's in office only.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#138

Post by tartoran »

nrjames wrote: post #129
noobermin wrote: post #85

Sometimes I feel like you guys live in alternative universe. Nothing about the "bad" interview sounded too atypical. Sure it's annoying, but not uncommon enough to be exceptional. I don't mean to discount anyone's unpleasantness but you'd be surprised how much worse the rest of the world is.

Applying to and taking a new job requires bidirectional approval and sense of fit. The way a company conducts its interview process is a reflection of the corporate culture and sometimes is enough to erode the sense of fit on the applicant's side. If the interview process is a disorganized mess, why should the applicant believe the rest of the company is any different?

Generally I agree but but when the bills keep stacking up and savings getting depleted it gets harder to be picky.

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#139

Post by bluefirebrand »

thrw42A8N wrote: post #99
bluefirebrand wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of the point, the "typical" experience is actually pretty bad for job hunters

Try to get a job in finance, accounting, marketing, law, or other kinds of engineering. 7+ rounds of interviews, weird pop-psych questions, even getting a reply/meeting is a problem ...

"It's bad everywhere" or "it's worse elsewhere" does not mean it's not bad

"Other people have it worse" is not a compelling reason to make people believe their own shitty situation is good

Maybe we could improve the interviewing in all industries?

But we could start with Software since that's where most of the people on this board work

Re: Looking for a Job Is Tough

#140

Post by meowster »

yawnxyz wrote: post #19

I know someone who has a UX background and is technical, who just landed a job... at a car dealership. Times are tough

I hope that person is continuing their job search, because from what I can tell, car dealerships aren't doing too hot right now.
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