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PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

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Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#91

Post by seanmcdirmid »

wordofx wrote: post #88
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t sound like China at all. Having worked in Beijing for 9 years, they pay techies fairly well, not USA FAANG well, but better than Japan, much of Europe, Korea, even Singapore. So there is a lot of private sector movement in these areas, not just government. Information is easily obtained, piracy rates are still very high so it’s not like anything is really locked down behind a paywall. There are plenty of…

Hahahhahahah no way. Salaries in Japan, Korea, Singapore are WAY better than China.

Not in tech. There is a weird de-emphasis of programmers in countries that aren’t the USA or mainland china. So a programmer from Japan with some experience/skills can move to Beijing (yes, there were many Japanese expat SWEs when I was there) for a better salary.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#92

Post by foohoge »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91
wordofx wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hahahhahahah no way. Salaries in Japan, Korea, Singapore are WAY better than China.

Not in tech. There is a weird de-emphasis of programmers in countries that aren’t the USA or mainland china. So a programmer from Japan with some experience/skills can move to Beijing (yes, there were many Japanese expat SWEs when I was there) for a better salary.

What? I'm Japanese but I've never heard a story about changing jobs to Chinese company. I heard a lot of stories about changing jobs to GAFAM.

Could you tell me more about that?

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#94

Post by baka367 »

wordofx wrote: post #88
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t sound like China at all. Having worked in Beijing for 9 years, they pay techies fairly well, not USA FAANG well, but better than Japan, much of Europe, Korea, even Singapore. So there is a lot of private sector movement in these areas, not just government. Information is easily obtained, piracy rates are still very high so it’s not like anything is really locked down behind a paywall. There are plenty of…

Hahahhahahah no way. Salaries in Japan, Korea, Singapore are WAY better than China.

Better than avg(China) - sure.

Better than tier1(China), where most of the research happens - the salaries in China are easily beating Japan and significant portion of the EU "centers" on top of having significantly lower cost of living on most of the relevant dimensions.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#95

Post by seanmcdirmid »

foohoge wrote: post #92
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in tech. There is a weird de-emphasis of programmers in countries that aren’t the USA or mainland china. So a programmer from Japan with some experience/skills can move to Beijing (yes, there were many Japanese expat SWEs when I was there) for a better salary.

What? I'm Japanese but I've never heard a story about changing jobs to Chinese company. I heard a lot of stories about changing jobs to GAFAM. Could you tell me more about that?

Microsoft paid more in Beijing than Tokyo while I was there, it turns out even experienced programmers in Tokyo don’t make $200k/year. Especially if you have a PhD or research in a hot field, you can get a pretty good job in richer Chinese cities. But an apartment is probably more expensive to rent in Beijing, and definitely in Shanghai, than it is in much of Tokyo, so there are trade offs.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#96

Post by tivert »

roenxi wrote: post #75
throwaway290 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ordinary people have their douyin/bilibili and fear of the party so they don't need to learn those things

Why would ordinary Chinese people fear the party? The party has been overseeing the greatest expansion of wealth in human history combined with a massive internal propaganda effort which I would assume is pitching them as the good guys and downplays all the brutal stuff they've done If anything I'd expect ordinary people to be far too trusting that the authorities are reasonable and friendly. They must have real prob…

You're forgetting all the corruption and hypocrisy in China. Do you think the individuals that make up the authorities act in a "reasonable and friendly" towards regular people who interact with them? The contradictions seen by anyone who's paying attention undermine the trust you posit and some fraction of the propaganda messages.

It kinda feels like you understand China as a thought experiment and not a real place.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#97

Post by foohoge »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #95
foohoge wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I'm Japanese but I've never heard a story about changing jobs to Chinese company. I heard a lot of stories about changing jobs to GAFAM. Could you tell me more about that?

Microsoft paid more in Beijing than Tokyo while I was there, it turns out even experienced programmers in Tokyo don’t make $200k/year. Especially if you have a PhD or research in a hot field, you can get a pretty good job in richer Chinese cities. But an apartment is probably more expensive to rent in Beijing, and definitely in Shanghai, than it is in much of Tokyo, so there are trade offs.

It's true that rents in Tokyo are expensive, but Kawasaki or Adachi, where the commute takes about 20 minutes, are cheap. I don't know about the salary, but I checked X or blog and it seems that some are work in the US headquarters, but none in Beijing.

Anyway, when are you there? It looks you are talking in 2010.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#98

Post by leeorz »

wordofx wrote: post #88
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t sound like China at all. Having worked in Beijing for 9 years, they pay techies fairly well, not USA FAANG well, but better than Japan, much of Europe, Korea, even Singapore. So there is a lot of private sector movement in these areas, not just government. Information is easily obtained, piracy rates are still very high so it’s not like anything is really locked down behind a paywall. There are plenty of…

Hahahhahahah no way. Salaries in Japan, Korea, Singapore are WAY better than China.

If you consider the exchange rate, of course, salaries in China would be much lower. If considering purchasing power and cost of living, Chinese salaries would have a relatively high level of competitiveness.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#99

Post by PittleyDunkin »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #57
TechDebtDevin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the US famously has breached foreign infrastructure. In Confessions of an Economic Hitman[0], Josh Perkins discusses how he knows on good authority the US could shutdown the Japanese electrical grid with relative ease if needed, which an ally. Imagine what they do to perceived enemies. [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2159.Confessions_of_an_E... This book was on of my favorite books to site in extemporan…

Confessions is best read as historical fiction. It's brilliantly written. But the author has never been able to substantiate much [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...

The accusations also seem unsubstantiated and ideological in nature. Eg

> Mallaby said that Perkins' conception of international finance is "largely a dream" and that his "basic contentions are flat wrong" because "the poor don't always lose" when developing countries borrow money.

It's not exactly an uncommon take to center conceptions neocolonialism around the World Bank and the IMF. This just seems like a Steven Pinker blunt rotation picking on the work.

Re: PRC Targeting of Commercial Telecommunications Infrastructure

#100

Post by tivert »

equestria wrote: post #50
_lvbh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are falling far behind in many areas, including cyber security In terms of quantity and quality of talent, I don't think the western world would fall behind China, especially with their strict control of information. Most people there will have difficulty independently learning about cybersecurity. The difference is that most talent is captured by the private sector with higher compensation or bounties. Meanwhil…

> especially with their strict control of information. Most people there will have difficulty independently learning about cybersecurity. I'm puzzled by this assertion. I know quite a few self-taught infosec folks who grew up there. China is not North Korea. The government, by and large, doesn't monitor what you're doing day-to-day, unless you're a political activist or some other "undesirable". The Great Firewall do…

> To be fair, the parent's claim that China is "ahead" in infosec also feels like fearmongering. The one thing that's true for China is that their government has far fewer qualms about hacking Western infrastructure to get dirt on dissidents, steal IP, and so on. But that's a matter of ethics and law, not tech.

I've heard China also has many more personnel working in this space.

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