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DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

deepcomputing.io

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Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#31

Post by bitwize »

MindSpunk wrote: post #21
MostlyStable wrote: post #17

A lot of comments are focusing on the value as a RISC-V development platform, which is obviously important, but I'm also hopeful that this presages more Framework mainboard options besides just what Framework itself offers. There is already a pretty big community offering I/O modules beyond Framework's options, but the true benefit of a Framework system is in the ability to not be locked in to only what one company t…

There's not really a lot of room for anyone to make a board that isn't a curiosity or highly-specific developer platform though. Framework already have both x86 vendors covered for people who want Intel or AMD. The only other chip worth making a board for is Snapdragon X Elite. There's nothing else in the same performance class.

Oh, come on.

You just know someone's gonna make an Amiga one.

And a whole bunch of aging German and Scandinavian hackers are gonna come out and try to convince people, no seriously, this is a great daily driver, you just have to go to Aminet and get the right RTG driver pack for the display panel and...

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#32

Post by nrp »

MostlyStable wrote: post #17

A lot of comments are focusing on the value as a RISC-V development platform, which is obviously important, but I'm also hopeful that this presages more Framework mainboard options besides just what Framework itself offers. There is already a pretty big community offering I/O modules beyond Framework's options, but the true benefit of a Framework system is in the ability to not be locked in to only what one company t…

We have gotten inbound interest from other Mainboard makers too, at least one of which is pretty far along on a design.

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#33

Post by nrp »

luyu_wu wrote: post #2

Took me a while to figure out that the actual pricing was $200 USD for a mainboard (you have to untick value-added services). Definitely not the best pricing, but also not completely bad considering you get a 64GB microSD and case alongside? Looking forwards to the next-gen mainboard they hint at in the "value-added package" as the JH7110 really is quite a weak chip (even by RISC-V standards)...

Note that this is a business-focused pre-release from DeepComputing, not the pricing for general developers at release of the Mainboard.

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#34

Post by timschmidt »

omeid2 wrote: post #30
bane wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the possibility of making mainboards with other features though, built-in FPGAs, SDRs, or maybe lower-powered x86 chips for more battery life. I guess that all falls under "curiosity", but I really do hope that the ecosystem for framework compatible parts blow up.

lower-powered x86 has little chance anymore. In 10 years from now, just about every portable system will be ARM-like.

Performance per watt is nearly identical for the Apple M4 and the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, despite the Ryzen being manufactured on 4nm while the M4 is on 3nm: https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/3

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#35

Post by usr1106 »

They promise Linux support. What is the situation with Rust on RISC-V? Obviously for a couple of years you haven't been able to build a somewhat complete and modern distro without a Rust compiler. However, that wasn't available everywhere outside of x86 and arm64 at the same time (https://lwn.net/Articles/845535/). Has that been fully solved in the meantime?

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#36

Post by Dylan16807 »

brucehoult wrote: post #27
therealcamino wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, you don't hear about these dates in vertically-integrated businesses, but it's a bit of a misdirection. Vertically-integrated manufacturers definitely don't take 6 years from RTL completion to mass production of the end product.

That's because they are vertically-integrated and can overlap the different stages and have the board people give feedback to the SoC people, who can give feedback to the CPU core people. With multiple vendor-customer relationships in the chain there is not only likely to be no overlap in stages, but even there may be 6, 12, 24 months of gap between the RTL for the core being available and someone even making a decis…

Those delays are very understandable but they don't make the chips less old, or counteract the problems caused by being old when RISC-V is racing to catch up.

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#37

Post by kldx »

usr1106 wrote: post #35

They promise Linux support. What is the situation with Rust on RISC-V? Obviously for a couple of years you haven't been able to build a somewhat complete and modern distro without a Rust compiler. However, that wasn't available everywhere outside of x86 and arm64 at the same time ( https://lwn.net/Articles/845535/ ). Has that been fully solved in the meantime?

In the embedded space, rust works great for riscv on ESP chips

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#38

Post by aarroyoc »

usr1106 wrote: post #35

They promise Linux support. What is the situation with Rust on RISC-V? Obviously for a couple of years you haven't been able to build a somewhat complete and modern distro without a Rust compiler. However, that wasn't available everywhere outside of x86 and arm64 at the same time ( https://lwn.net/Articles/845535/ ). Has that been fully solved in the meantime?

The Rust compiler has supported RISC-V64GC for many years already. I got my first RISC-V SBC in 2022 and have not found a single issue with the Rust compiler (some libraries have problems, but that's a different problem). In the end, the Rust compiler relies on LLVM, which also Clang users need it in order to compile C and C++ programs to RISC-V.

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#39

Post by chaxor »

timschmidt wrote: post #34
omeid2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lower-powered x86 has little chance anymore. In 10 years from now, just about every portable system will be ARM-like.

Performance per watt is nearly identical for the Apple M4 and the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, despite the Ryzen being manufactured on 4nm while the M4 is on 3nm: https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/3 Sorry to burst your bubble.

The biggest thing I want to see from framework is ARM (or better, Risc-V that achieves great low power performance) with an enormous battery and linux or BSD with all the optimizations to improve battery life.

I bought a macbook a while ago specifically because I can get it to last about 45-50 hours non-stop usage on one charge, so getting a system tailored for even better performance and a longer battery life (macbooks could probably double or triple battery life if they bulked up and stopped trying to be so petite) would be incredible.

>100 hour battery lifes should be very achiebable for developers, as limiting screen brightness and using only terminal with a black background can increase battery life _enormously_.

Re: DeepComputing: Early Access Program for RISC-V Mainboard for Framework Laptop 13

#40

Post by WithinReason »

timschmidt wrote: post #34
omeid2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lower-powered x86 has little chance anymore. In 10 years from now, just about every portable system will be ARM-like.

Performance per watt is nearly identical for the Apple M4 and the Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, despite the Ryzen being manufactured on 4nm while the M4 is on 3nm: https://www.phoronix.com/review/apple-m4-intel-amd-linux/3 Sorry to burst your bubble.

You charts show the M4 having a more than 2x advantage in both MIPS per watt and MB per Joule over the Ryzen
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