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Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

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Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#31

Post by consumer451 »

asadotzler wrote: post #20

If the algorithms for sorting and filtering and discovering aren't open source, a social app is not open. It really is that simple. Some open source artifact on your device wrapping proprietary code on a server is not in the category of "open source products" because the only parts that matter are entirely closed. "My HTML front end is licensed MIT" does not make your product which is entirely dependent on secret sau…

> is entirely dependent on secret sauce in your back end open source. Enough with the bullshit.

With all due respect, it sounds like you are not familiar with Bluesky.

As far as I know, the only proprietary code is the single Discover feed, which every user can un-pin from their feeds. My assumption for this being proprietary is so that it cannot be gamed. It could be for a darker reason, I suppose.

However, this is a feed that I use maybe 10% of the time. Aside from the Following feed, I have curated a bunch of my own user lists and 3rd party feeds. I am able to pin these to my feeds list. This is where I spend my time.

Aside from that one significant feed, yet small aspect, literally every other part of Bluesky is open source. This includes client, server, moderation system, and protocol.

Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#32

Post by whyrusleeping »

consumer451 wrote: post #31
asadotzler wrote: post #20

If the algorithms for sorting and filtering and discovering aren't open source, a social app is not open. It really is that simple. Some open source artifact on your device wrapping proprietary code on a server is not in the category of "open source products" because the only parts that matter are entirely closed. "My HTML front end is licensed MIT" does not make your product which is entirely dependent on secret sau…

> is entirely dependent on secret sauce in your back end open source. Enough with the bullshit. With all due respect, it sounds like you are not familiar with Bluesky. As far as I know, the only proprietary code is the single Discover feed, which every user can un-pin from their feeds. My assumption for this being proprietary is so that it cannot be gamed. It could be for a darker reason, I suppose. However, this is…

> My assumption for this being proprietary is so that it cannot be gamed. It could be a darker reason, I suppose.

As the guy developing said feed, this is indeed the reason. I have a hard enough time as it is with people gaming the specific parameters of the feed, having it fully open would be a huge tax on my time.

Most of the components of the feed are trialed in my personal feeds repo here: https://github.com/whyrusleeping/algoz

You could take the code from there and get to a workable "Discover" feed relatively quickly if you wanted to. Also several of the feeds I have in that repo are among the most popular feeds in the network, especially Quiet Posters (infrequent.go).

Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#33

Post by justinkramp »

asadotzler wrote: post #20

If the algorithms for sorting and filtering and discovering aren't open source, a social app is not open. It really is that simple. Some open source artifact on your device wrapping proprietary code on a server is not in the category of "open source products" because the only parts that matter are entirely closed. "My HTML front end is licensed MIT" does not make your product which is entirely dependent on secret sau…

They published a nearly layman friendly doc of the platform architecture including a description of moderation a year ago. Great read. https://docs.bsky.app/blog/blueskys-moderation-architecture

Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#35

Post by solarkraft »

haileyok wrote: post #28
ferbivore wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license isn't relevant. It's not really "an open source app", it's just an app that happens to be open source. Put it this way: if, say, Godot became the #1 most popular game engine, that would be something for the open source community at large to celebrate. With Bluesky, we have absolutely nothing to celebrate. If anything, this is terrible news; instead of Twitter losing users to a genuinely open platform, the…

The Bluesky app and the protocol it is built on are open source, MIT licensed. The app is built using React/React Native as well as a variety of other open source tools. We maintain multiple React Native libraries as well that are open source. The network is open, and anyone has access to the firehose. Third parties are free to run labelers that integrate with the application as well as build feeds which can be used…

So ... can I run my own infrastructure that’s part of the Bluesky network? What rules does it have to play by? That’s what really matters.

The apps being open source is great of course, but the standards for openness are very high for (something aiming to be) internet-level infrastructure.

A single company having a lot of control would be a bit of a red flag in this context. The rug pull incentives are huge (that said I am a proponent of commercial interests in open ecosystems, provided they don’t get too much control).

Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#36

Post by solarkraft »

whyrusleeping wrote: post #32
consumer451 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is entirely dependent on secret sauce in your back end open source. Enough with the bullshit. With all due respect, it sounds like you are not familiar with Bluesky. As far as I know, the only proprietary code is the single Discover feed, which every user can un-pin from their feeds. My assumption for this being proprietary is so that it cannot be gamed. It could be for a darker reason, I suppose. However, this is…

> My assumption for this being proprietary is so that it cannot be gamed. It could be a darker reason, I suppose. As the guy developing said feed, this is indeed the reason. I have a hard enough time as it is with people gaming the specific parameters of the feed, having it fully open would be a huge tax on my time. Most of the components of the feed are trialed in my personal feeds repo here: https://github.com/whyr…

Algorithmic curation is, I believe, a key to making (para-)social media enjoyable and Bluesky is the only (semi?) open project I’m aware of investing in this type of stuff. It not being open is a bummer. Is there any good reading material on this topic?

I believe in a world in which people can choose and tune their algorithms, a diversity here should make them harder to game, as well as a highly-weighted „not interested“ button.

It’s surely not the plan to keep this proprietary forever, right?

Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#37

Post by chokolad »

solarkraft wrote: post #35
haileyok wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bluesky app and the protocol it is built on are open source, MIT licensed. The app is built using React/React Native as well as a variety of other open source tools. We maintain multiple React Native libraries as well that are open source. The network is open, and anyone has access to the firehose. Third parties are free to run labelers that integrate with the application as well as build feeds which can be used…

So ... can I run my own infrastructure that’s part of the Bluesky network? What rules does it have to play by? That’s what really matters. The apps being open source is great of course, but the standards for openness are very high for (something aiming to be) internet-level infrastructure. A single company having a lot of control would be a bit of a red flag in this context. The rug pull incentives are huge (that sai…

> So ... can I run my own infrastructure that’s part of the Bluesky network? What rules does it have to play by? That’s what really matters.

You can run most of the Bluesky infrastructure and make it part of Bluesky network https://alice.bsky.sh/post/3laega7icmi2q

Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#38

Post by bruce511 »

I'm generally positive about BlueSky and pleased for their current successes.

But I fell like the really hard part is yet to come, and being open might make that part harder.

All online communities go through the same phases (or die along the way).

In the beginning it's populated by enthusiasts, tech adopters, people with good intentions. The problems are mostly technical and infrastructure.

Then it grows rapidly with mostly the same parameters.

Then it gets big enough so the trolls, spammers, bots, misogynist, racists, marketers, advertisers et al arrive. At this point the problems become social - moderation etc.

Failure to manage this stage well leads to, well, Twitter.

And it's by far the hardest part of the whole process. I hope BlueSky get this part right.

Re: Ask HN: Bluesky is #1 in the U.S. App Store. Is this a first for open source?

#39

Post by haileyok »

solarkraft wrote: post #35
haileyok wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bluesky app and the protocol it is built on are open source, MIT licensed. The app is built using React/React Native as well as a variety of other open source tools. We maintain multiple React Native libraries as well that are open source. The network is open, and anyone has access to the firehose. Third parties are free to run labelers that integrate with the application as well as build feeds which can be used…

So ... can I run my own infrastructure that’s part of the Bluesky network? What rules does it have to play by? That’s what really matters. The apps being open source is great of course, but the standards for openness are very high for (something aiming to be) internet-level infrastructure. A single company having a lot of control would be a bit of a red flag in this context. The rug pull incentives are huge (that sai…

Yes, it is absolutely possible to build on atprotocol and be a part of the network. We have written a good bit about this already here: https://atproto.com/articles/atproto-for-distsys-engineers (in addition to the recently updated documentation in general)
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