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A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

openai.com

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Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of them are from Russia/Europe/China, at least the most successful implementers. My guess is that at least Russia/China will continue with the traditional education while watching with glee that the West is dumbing itself down even further.

By what means will -they- avoid hitting the same issues? Neither Russia nor China have magic detectors for is-this-essay-written-by-AI either.

Well China has already shown some legislative teeth in these matters. IIRC they put a hard limit on the amount of time minors can play videogames and use TikTok (Douyin). Banning AI for minors is also something I could see them doing.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have dozens of phone numbers memorized. Once I got a cell phone I forgot everyone's number. I don't even know the phone number of my own mother. I don't want to lose my ability to think. I don't want to become intellectually dependent on AI in the slightest. I've been programming for over a decade without AI and I don't suddenly need it now.

Interesting perspective. I read your first line about phone numbers as a fantastic thing -- people used to have to memorize multiple 10 digit phone numbers, now you can think about your contacts' names and relationships. But... I think you were actually bemoaning the shift from numbers to names as a loss?

(not op) for me its a matter of dependency. great, as long as i have my phone I can just ask siri to call my sister, but if I need to use someone else's phone because mines lost or dead, well, how am I going to do that?

Same as AI. Cool it makes you 5x as efficient at your job. But after a decade of using it, can you got back to 1x efficiency without it? Or are you just making the highly optimistic leap that you will retain access to the tech in perpetuity.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#153
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chatgpt is great for writing regular expressions by the way.

Just because it spits out a RE doesn't mean the RE is what you wanted. For one thing, you'll need to be precise in your prompt.

Rhetorical question: Can you ever fully be sure you have the regex you wanted?

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#154
I have been working with colleagues to develop advice on how to adapt teaching methods in the face of widespread use of LLMs by students.

The first point I like to make is that the purpose of having students do tasks is to foster their development. That may sound obvious, but many people don't seem to take notice that the products of student activities are worthless in themselves. We don't have students do push-ups in gym class to help the national economy by meeting some push-up quota. The sole reason for them is to promote physical development. The same principle applies to mental tasks. When considering LLM use, we need to be looking at its effects on student development rather than on student output.

So, what is actually new about LLM use? There has always been a risk that students would sometimes submit homework that was actually the work of someone else, but LLMs enable willing students to do it all the time. Teachers can adapt to this by basing evaluation only on work done in class, and by designing homework to emphasize feedback on key points, so that students will get some learning benefit even though a LLM did the work.

Completely following this advice may seem impossible, because some important forms of work done for evaluation require too much time. Teachers use papers and projects to challenge students in a more elaborate way than is possible in class. These can still be used beneficially if a distinction is made between work done for learning and work done for evaluation. While students develop multiple skills while working on these extended tasks, those skills could be evaluated in class by more concise tasks with a narrower focus. For example, good writing requires logical coherence and rhetorical flow. If students have trouble in these areas, it will be just as evident in a brief essay as a long one.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#156

Lots of interesting debates in this thread. I think it is worth placing writing/coding tasks into two buckets. Are you producing? Or are you learning? For example, I have zero qualms about relying on AI at work to write progress reports and code up some scripts. I know I can do it myself but why would I? I spent many years in college learning to read and write and code. AI makes me at least 2x more efficient at my jo…

"But there is something to be said about atrophy. If you don't use it, you lose it. I wonder if my coding skill will deteriorate in the years to come..." "You don't want to over-rely on AI because a certain degree of "productive struggle" is essential for learning something deeply." These two ideas are closely related and really just different aspects of the same basic frailty of the human intellect. Understanding th…

In the presence of sufficiently good and ubiquitous tools, knowing how to do some base thing loses most or all of its value.

In a world where everyone has a phone/calculator in their pocket, remembering how to do long division on paper is not worthwhile. If I ask you "what is 457829639 divided by 3454", it is not worth your time to do that by hand rather than plugging it into your phone's calculator.

In a world where AI can immediately produce any arbitrary 20-line glue script that you would have had to think about and remember bash array syntax for, there's not a reason to remember bash array syntax.

I don't think we're quite at that point yet but we're astonishingly close.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a certain degree of "productive struggle" is essential Honestly, I'm not sure this would account for most of the difficulty in learning. In my experience most of the difficulty involved in learning something involved a few missing pieces of insight. It often took longer to understand the few missing pieces than the rest of the topic. If they are accurate enough, LLMs are great for getting yourself unstuck and keep…

ideally you look and fail and exhaust your own efforts, then get unblocked with a tool or assistant or expert. With LLMs at your finger tips who has both the grit to struggle and the self discipline not to quit early? at the age of the typical student - very few.

one could argue aswell that having at least generally satisfying, but at the same time omnipresent "expert assistance" might rather end up empowering you.

Feeling confident to be able to shrug off blockers, that might otherwise turn exploration into a painful egg hunt for trivial unknowns, can easily mean the difference between learning and abandoning.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#158
post #2

I think this is pretty good advice. I think often AI sceptics go too far in assuming users blindly use the AI to do everything (write all the code, write the whole essay). The advice in this article largely mirrors - by analogy - how I use AI for coding. To rubber duck, to generate ideas, to ask for feedback, to ask for alternatives and for criticism. Usually it cannot write the whole thing (essay, program )in one go…

This is also a great PR press release for openai. They are telling users NOT to generate content with lazy prompts, but to use as an aid.

Sometimes I tried to be transparent in having used chatgpt like for minor stuff, and I got pooled into being a lazy fuck who submitted slob.

We are probably going to see an end to the bearish wave of ai and a correction towards reasonable AI use.

No, it cannot solve new math problems and is not as smart as Alakazam, but it CAN format your citations and make you a cup of coffee.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#159
post #55

I sit on my local school board and (as everyone knows) AI has been whirling through the school like a tornado. I'm concerned about student using it to cheat, but I'm also pretty concerned about how teachers are using it. For example, many teachers have fed student essays into ChatGPT and asked "did AI write this?" or "was this plagiarized" or similar, and fully trusting whatever the AI tells them. This has led to som…

My takeaway: a chrome plugin that writes LLM generated text into a Google doc over the course of a couple of days is a great product idea!

The only use of such a product would be fraudulent. Go ahead, make money, but know you would be a scammer or at best facilitating scammers

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#160

In the age of google + AI + instant access to info, knowing how to ask the question is more important than knowing the answer.

Sure if your goal is to generate a race of Eloi who live exclusively as passive consumers, casually disregarding anything a machine can hide from their feeble minds.

For some, perhaps.

For others, it could be a force multiplier - I think you'll see more multimillionaire businesses run by only 1 or 2 people.

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