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PHP is much better than what you think

fabien.potencier.org

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Re: PHP is much better than what you think

#341

Post by antihero »

philjohn wrote: post #58
talkingquickly wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue PHP is, for any project of reasonable size, harder to get up and running than say Rails. For any serious development a PHP developer (some experience, did several years of PHP dev) will have to setup a local instance of Apache/ MySQL/ PHP and deal with making sure libraries installed on this dev server match libraries on the production server. When it comes to deployment for both Rails (in this case) and PH…

PHP 5.4 has a local development server, so even that point is moot. But how hard is setting up apache, mysql and PHP? sudo yum install apache php mysql done. And anyway, for a serious project you need a local dev environment that somewhat mirrors live, and then staging (which exactly mirrors live).

And what % of PHP devs alive today will ever be able to develop in modern PHP without dealing with abhorrent hacks and 4.3 code because the entire ecosystem is a giant cesspit of attempts to work on shit old shared hosting that have never been upgraded.

To clarify, I know that PHP 5.4 is getting to the point of a modern language (despite lacking the deliciousness and usefulness of modern interpreted languages like Ruby and Python), and despite that it's still a complete mess of inconsistent standard library and weird not-quite-deprecated extensions, but the attitude it has fostered, that DON'T GIVE A SHIT JUST MAKE SOME STUFF DUUURRRRR has meant that PHP is essentially the bane of everyone's existence.

Re: PHP is much better than what you think

#342

Post by jasonlotito »

Xylakant wrote: post #328
jasonlotito wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no. See, those instructions are from the getting started page. Why do you have to? Because, you can install composer just by downloading it and running it. You dont need to "install" it. This is handy on shared hosting environments where you won't have root. How can I install bundler on a shared hosting environment like composer?

Well, yes. I can install bundler on a shared hosting environment where I don't have root. In fact, pretty much all my installations are non-root installations. Still, I don't have to manually move it around, symlink or shell-wrap it. It's not a deal-breaker or a major nuisance that I have to do it, it just fits in what I'm used from php: it gets the job done, but feels unpolished.

> Well, yes. I can install bundler on a shared hosting environment where I don't have root.

So what command do you run to get that installed like that?

> it gets the job done, but feels unpolished.

Unpolished like make && make install.

Re: PHP is much better than what you think

#343

Post by antihero »

debacle wrote: post #139
talkingquickly wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue PHP is, for any project of reasonable size, harder to get up and running than say Rails. For any serious development a PHP developer (some experience, did several years of PHP dev) will have to setup a local instance of Apache/ MySQL/ PHP and deal with making sure libraries installed on this dev server match libraries on the production server. When it comes to deployment for both Rails (in this case) and PH…

Rails and Symfony were pretty much the same framework 3 years ago. Now Symfony 2 is doing things that Rails doesn't. The sheer number of programmers who use PHP versus the amount that use Ruby means that good software in PHP will evolve faster than good software in Ruby.

No, the sheer number of programmers who use PHP just means that there's a much higher signal-noise ratio of half way decent code.

Re: PHP is much better than what you think

#344

Post by lonnyk »

papsosouid wrote: post #337
lonnyk wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>PHP is not a good language because "it is equal to other languages in one respect, and vastly worse in a dozen other ways". That is the argument you put forth No it isn't. I never compared it to any other language commonly used for web development. I never even hinted at that being my argument.

Is this a bad attempt at trolling? You said "PHP is good b/c it allows a lot of people to be productive". Everything else is equally good at that. Simply not pointing it out doesn't make it go away. So your argument is "PHP is equal to other languages at X", even when you word it as "PHP is good at X" while trying to ignore every other language being equally good at X.

>Is this a bad attempt at trolling?

I really have the same question for you. You keep assuming I was implying something I wasn't in my original statement. I do not know why you keep doing this. Clearly we have two different opinions on two things:

1. PHP

2. What I said.

I think we should just agree to disagree on both, because we are not getting anywhere.

EDIT: I just want to add that IMO - you can call something 'good' without comparing it to something else. It would only be a comparison if I called it 'better'.

Re: PHP is much better than what you think

#345

Post by pg »

lonnyk wrote: post #344
papsosouid wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a bad attempt at trolling? You said "PHP is good b/c it allows a lot of people to be productive". Everything else is equally good at that. Simply not pointing it out doesn't make it go away. So your argument is "PHP is equal to other languages at X", even when you word it as "PHP is good at X" while trying to ignore every other language being equally good at X.

>Is this a bad attempt at trolling? I really have the same question for you. You keep assuming I was implying something I wasn't in my original statement. I do not know why you keep doing this. Clearly we have two different opinions on two things: 1. PHP 2. What I said. I think we should just agree to disagree on both, because we are not getting anywhere. EDIT: I just want to add that IMO - you can call something 'go…

Will you guys please stop?

Re: PHP is much better than what you think

#346

Post by Xylakant »

jasonlotito wrote: post #342
Xylakant wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes. I can install bundler on a shared hosting environment where I don't have root. In fact, pretty much all my installations are non-root installations. Still, I don't have to manually move it around, symlink or shell-wrap it. It's not a deal-breaker or a major nuisance that I have to do it, it just fits in what I'm used from php: it gets the job done, but feels unpolished.

> Well, yes. I can install bundler on a shared hosting environment where I don't have root. So what command do you run to get that installed like that? > it gets the job done, but feels unpolished. Unpolished like make && make install.

> So what command do you run to get that installed like that?

"gem install --user-install bundler".

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