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My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

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Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#111

Post by erik_seaberg »

tauwauwau wrote: post #52
toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

I don't even know what to say to this other than that you are right that it does sound stupid and it is stupid. A software developer should not be afraid of learning software, learning new things is fundamental in our work. Comparing an IDE with basic editor like vi, really, that may have worked out for you since you started 20 years ago when that worked, but it should not be the advice today.

I learn new tools and platforms all the time, but editing needs muscle memory and I don't want to abandon that every five years for the new hotness. IDEA is just starting to show some longevity for Scala and Kotlin.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#112

Post by cassianoleal »

InfamousRece wrote: post #108
brazzledazzle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason is that Vim is better, right?

Emacs has evil mode. Does that make vim a morally superior choice?

No. It means Emacs, the morally superior one, has a mode that makes it evil - by definition morally inferior. :D

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#113

Post by llm_trw »

stackghost wrote: post #100
llm_trw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But becoming proficient in VS code takes maybe 25 minutes. Becoming proficient in kicking a ball takes 5 minutes. Becoming proficient in football takes slightly longer. Magit alone makes VS Code look like a child's finger painting.

>Magit alone makes VS Code look like a child's finger painting. Magit is indeed a great git client, but I don't see what that has to do with emacs having bad defaults and an out of box experience that could be charitably described as antique.

Antique means stable.

When you've been using the same thing for 20 years changing defaults to be trendy isn't a plus.

You'll understand in 20 years when you're on your 4th IDE which will change the world^tm.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#114

Post by llm_trw »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #109
sagarm wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I default to printf debugging myself, but it can be an indicator that someone doesn't know their tools.

Breakpoints are likely to screw up a lot of concurrent user requests, so in prod we debug microservices by comparing pushed logs.

The typical bell curve meme: https://imgflip.com/i/9a9gm7

The fun begins when you can't debug by printf because the buffer is shared by multiple processes that change it while the printf command is running.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#115

Post by packetlost »

binary132 wrote: post #87
packetlost wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk, I find I don't miss anything from heavyweight IDEs. I switched to neovim like 6 years ago. 95% of working with a codebase, familiar or not, is navigation and editing. LSPs enable pretty much any editor to intelligently navigate to definitions and find usages of a given construct. Anything beyond that is quickly hitting diminishing returns. The one exception is maybe untangling particularly gnarly git conflicts.

good thing Emacs has a best in class git and visual diff editor package

Emacs is fine, but it's not really about the visual diff and more that you get syntax checking and other features in the diff view that afaik aren't available in lighter weight tool. Neogit is quite good and is heavily inspired by magit, so it's not like they're appreciably different.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#116

Post by erik_seaberg »

llm_trw wrote: post #114
erik_seaberg wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breakpoints are likely to screw up a lot of concurrent user requests, so in prod we debug microservices by comparing pushed logs.

The typical bell curve meme: https://imgflip.com/i/9a9gm7 The fun begins when you can't debug by printf because the buffer is shared by multiple processes that change it while the printf command is running.

Yeah, network logging has latency but it does pack the messages into structs and demux them. The remaining debugger problems are:

- Do you know which service tier has the issue?

- Can you halt one thread that sees the issue, not all of them on an instance?

- When the request times out, do you have to start over and make another prod user sad?

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#117

Post by [deleted] »

Myrmornis wrote: post #101
curiousgal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's suppose that's true, so what? Is Putin Satan now? I don't see anyone rushing to boycott US companies over its state policy... Intellij is a great product, I would still use it even if it were Israeli.

Exactly. The context here requires us to remember that US, and UK, etc governments are funding and providing weapons to a genocide being carried out by Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides

[deleted]

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#118

Post by closeparen »

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

In college I used exclusively plain text editors, and like 80% of my edit-compile-run cycles were wasted on noise like symbol names and the ordering of positional arguments. When I got into professional life and started using JetBrains IDEs, I felt like I was flying.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#119

Post by [deleted] »

Myrmornis wrote: post #101
curiousgal wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's suppose that's true, so what? Is Putin Satan now? I don't see anyone rushing to boycott US companies over its state policy... Intellij is a great product, I would still use it even if it were Israeli.

Exactly. The context here requires us to remember that US, and UK, etc governments are funding and providing weapons to a genocide being carried out by Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides

[deleted]

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#120

Post by viraptor »

yapyap wrote: post #70

> If anyone has ever gone from a Jetbrains IDE back to VSCode, you likely know that this transition feels pretty bad. Does anyone know what OOP is talking about here? VSCode is working just fine for me and I do not have a reddit account to ask it him myself

Out of the box JB apps have much more built in feature. You can reach a similar level with multiple extensions in vs code, but you have to spend significant time on that. And the behaviour from independent extensions is not as polished in the end.
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