Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

old.reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 201 posts

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#81

Post by FredPret »

digging wrote: post #51
FredPret wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so tiresome. If you’re reading this you’re privileged. Somewhere on this planet is a single individual human who is the very unluckiest and most unfortunate. Everyone else is privileged. Even that guy is lucky to be alive now and not 1000 years ago. None of this makes OP wrong.

Nothing you just posted is relevant to the conversation. Most HN readers can't quit their job on a whim without putting their household in jeopardy. That's the sentiment you're responding to.

Be that as it may, it's a real solution for many.

Calling out a solution as "privileged" adds nothing to this site.

You have a job at all? You have the brain and attention span to read this far? You can use computers to solve problems? That's a privilege. And yet we don't point that out every time a programming or career or product question is asked and answered.

Perhaps OP could have added something a bit gentler like "quit your job - if you can". But it's fundamentally a sound plan for many of us, and crucially, also even for many of us who aren't aware how much market power they really have.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#82

Post by tsimionescu »

teddyh wrote: post #34
awestroke wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, ignorance is not the main reason people don't use emacs

People who write “our only real option is VSCode” about Python and Go programmers are ignorant of what Emacs can do. Some people may prefer something else, but Emacs is a real option.

As a five+ year Emacs user who primarily codes in Go and some Python, and is aware of eglot, other LSPs, elpy, etc: I fully agree that VSCode is the only real option. If you happen to have a passion for Emacs, as I do, awesome. But it's not realistic to start using Emacs when you need to switch off of another editor. I would never suggest to a new co-worker "try Emacs", though I would be more than happy to help them if they wanted to.

Emacs is an extremely esoteric program, from shortcuts, to documentation, to package management (should you use elpa? melpa? melpa-unstable), to configuration (I love Lisp, but it's much more esoteric than JSON), to bugs (who has regular UI locking as an expected part of the experience, e.g. when using eglot, in 2024?).

I love emacs, and tinkering with it, and will probably never stop using it. That doesn't mean it's a real option for someone who doesn't want to make it a hobby.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#83

Post by elric »

skwee357 wrote: post #66

Glad I invested the time to learn Vim. Can't trust anyone these days. Everything seems to revolve around politics.

Eclipse is still a great option for Java. And I was pleasantly surprised at Devoxx last month when Oracle's Stuart Marks whipped out ye olde Netbeans for some live coding during a talk.

Dev tool monopolies are as bad as any other monopoly.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#84

Post by imp0cat »

llm_trw wrote: post #64
stackghost wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Meanwhile, everyone else is wasting months getting up to speed on the latest and greatest thing every 8 years or so. Yeah I used to think this way, because you're right: becoming proficient in emacs takes significant effort and time. But becoming proficient in VS code takes maybe 25 minutes. 25 minutes to change IDEs every 8 years or so doesn't seem like an onerous requirement to me. Emacs just has extremely poor de…

>But becoming proficient in VS code takes maybe 25 minutes. Becoming proficient in kicking a ball takes 5 minutes. Becoming proficient in football takes slightly longer. Magit alone makes VS Code look like a child's finger painting.

So true! Now don't get me wrong, I quite like VS Code as it's so easy to set up and there is a plugin for almost anything, but I find myself always coming back to Emacs.

He's right about the defaults though. Use something like Spacemacs or Doom if you just want to dip your toes in the goodness that is Emacs.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#85

Post by binary132 »

pjdesno wrote: post #67
teddyh wrote: post #6

> We are primarily a Go and Python shop, which means our only real option is VSCode I’d like to echo the sentiments of Reddit user tikhonjelvis, who commented¹: “Man, I knew CS programs were skimping on Emacs fundamentals, but I hadn't realized it was this bad.” 1. https://old.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/1gqj7qa/my... >

I've used GNU Emacs since the mid 80s. It was good in its day, but I think there may be better alternatives nowadays. I can't be sure, though, because using Emacs as an expert is definitely better than using those other systems as a beginner, so I haven't gotten around to getting over the learning curve.

Relatively recent Emacs convert here

It is still very very good IMO

having been a somewhat longterm user of IDEA, Vim, Atom, and Eclipse

The addition of elisp JIT compilation even makes its performance more than adequate

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#86

Post by stackskipton »

nnf wrote: post #5

Useful link to the JetBrains blog from the Reddit discussion: https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/12/06/update-on-jetbrai... From that blog post (2022): > In addition to terminating all sales, all of our offices in Russia, including Moscow, Novosibirsk, and St. Petersburg were shut down. Work on the new campus in St. Petersburg was also terminated. All R&D activities were gradually stopped and liquidation papers for…

My guess is continued heavy employment of Russian citizens is the problem. Risk of state putting pressure on their families and turning them may be too high for certain government agencies.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#87

Post by binary132 »

packetlost wrote: post #24
twelve40 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.

idk, I find I don't miss anything from heavyweight IDEs. I switched to neovim like 6 years ago. 95% of working with a codebase, familiar or not, is navigation and editing. LSPs enable pretty much any editor to intelligently navigate to definitions and find usages of a given construct. Anything beyond that is quickly hitting diminishing returns. The one exception is maybe untangling particularly gnarly git conflicts.

good thing Emacs has a best in class git and visual diff editor package

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#88

Post by [deleted] »

kgeist wrote: post #59
phplovesong wrote: post #7

IIRC jetbrains was a russian company, backed by people close to putin. Then they "migrated" away from russia (jetbrains users are 90% westerners) to avoid losing their users, and even made some blog post about it, but from what i have heard the people behind the curtains whose names are in no legal papers are in fact still the same people with close ties to putin and his inner circle.

As far as I remember, JetBrains was founded in 2000 by a couple of Russian immigrants in Prague back when no one knew who Putin was. They had an office in St.Petersburg which was closed in 2022, they don't sell in Russia anymore, and ban all Russian users. What's the evidence of them having ties to Putin?

[deleted]

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#89

Post by tsimionescu »

imp0cat wrote: post #77
nineplay wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably used vim exclusively for about a decade. I've worked with a handful of developers who've only used vim and I've only known one who was anywhere near as effective with it as most IDE users. A few examples -- debugging with print statement because they don't know how to use a command line debugger -- using find and grep to find files/methods -- hand-formatting files because they don't have a inline formatter…

Care to elaborate what's wrong with find and grep?

It takes seconds or more to grep for a function, especially if it has a common name. It takes milliseconds to Go To Definition / Find Usages (either with an IDE or a LSP extension for any text editor).

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#90

Post by acuozzo »

twelve40 wrote: post #19
toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

I find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.

My current codebase is a liberal mixture of C, C++, Java, and mksh. The whole project uses CMake and GNU Autotools and ndk-build and whatever the heck calling mma with AOSP does.

There's no way to unify it given how many different moving parts are involved. Trying to fit this all within an IDE would be a project of its own...

Post reply on HN