My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally • Hacker News Board

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#31

Post by mixmastamyk » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:04 PM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #19

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

I find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.

Most tools work at the command line, making scripting a freebie.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#32

Post by gedy » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:05 PM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #19

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

I find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.

Not OP, but I was confused as well, but found that a lot of people who did this had basically created an IDE-like experience with tmux, etc around vim, etc.

Not really my thing but I guess it works for them.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#33

Post by curiousgal » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:06 PM UTC

phplovesong wrote: post #7

IIRC jetbrains was a russian company, backed by people close to putin. Then they "migrated" away from russia (jetbrains users are 90% westerners) to avoid losing their users, and even made some blog post about it, but from what i have heard the people behind the curtains whose names are in no legal papers are in fact still the same people with close ties to putin and his inner circle.

Let's suppose that's true, so what? Is Putin Satan now? I don't see anyone rushing to boycott US companies over its state policy...

Intellij is a great product, I would still use it even if it were Israeli.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#34

Post by teddyh » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:08 PM UTC

awestroke wrote: post #22

teddyh wrote: post #6

> We are primarily a Go and Python shop, which means our only real option is VSCode I’d like to echo the sentiments of Reddit user tikhonjelvis, who commented¹: “Man, I knew CS programs were skimping on Emacs fundamentals, but I hadn't realized it was this bad.” 1. https://old.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/1gqj7qa/my... >

Believe it or not, ignorance is not the main reason people don't use emacs

People who write “our only real option is VSCode” about Python and Go programmers are ignorant of what Emacs can do. Some people may prefer something else, but Emacs is a real option.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#35

Post by mixmastamyk » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:08 PM UTC

ironman1478 wrote: post #30

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

Vim is great but I think VSCode really is the one tool to rule them all going forward. It's extremely well designed, snappy, and I think does the correct thing of first treating everything as a text file and allowing plugins to provide semantic meaning. I never liked visual studio because it was too specific to writing software and using the GUI to do what I wanted. Editing msbuild files directly was a pain for examp…

Nice try, microsoft. There’s way too many floss options to bother with surveillance capitalism tools and lock-in/e³.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#36

Post by syndicatedjelly » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:08 PM UTC

ironman1478 wrote: post #30

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

Vim is great but I think VSCode really is the one tool to rule them all going forward. It's extremely well designed, snappy, and I think does the correct thing of first treating everything as a text file and allowing plugins to provide semantic meaning. I never liked visual studio because it was too specific to writing software and using the GUI to do what I wanted. Editing msbuild files directly was a pain for examp…

> Vim is great but I think VSCode really is the one tool to rule them all going forward.

I really hope you’re wrong about that. I don’t want to be ruled by another Microsoft product

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#37

Post by nomel » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:08 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #23

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

But this is people that use their autocomplete, F8 step through debugging and the like. I was like that about 20 years ago, working with Eclipse and later NetBeans for Java and Visual Studio for C# .net v1 (anyone remembers whole tomato extensions?). I needed the IDE , the autocomplete, the debugger and all that. Nowadays, I do mostly Vim and Vscode for more complex projects. I don't know why, but I "grew out" of nee…

I suspect it’s also about the type of work you do, if you don’t need a debugger.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#38

Post by bawolff » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:09 PM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #19

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

I find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.

Maybe i just never gave the heavyweight ide tools a fair chance, but i always found them more distracting than helpful. Focus is king for me, and vim gives me that.

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#39

Post by brazzledazzle » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:09 PM UTC

awestroke wrote: post #22

teddyh wrote: post #6

> We are primarily a Go and Python shop, which means our only real option is VSCode I’d like to echo the sentiments of Reddit user tikhonjelvis, who commented¹: “Man, I knew CS programs were skimping on Emacs fundamentals, but I hadn't realized it was this bad.” 1. https://old.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/1gqj7qa/my... >

Believe it or not, ignorance is not the main reason people don't use emacs

The main reason is that Vim is better, right?

Re: My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally

#40

Post by csdreamer7 » Wed, Nov 13, 2024, 8:09 PM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #19

toprerules wrote: post #9

I've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.

I find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.

Strongly disagree, but I am in a niche field, Linux kernel development. Emacs is really struggling with it's tools. But for Neovim: the plugins and good keycombos are absolutely essential to get certain functionality for my productivity.

* rg with telescope window to quickly find text in very large code basis is essential.

* Pressing spc, spc, to bring up a telescope window of my open buffers and typing in text to narrow them, very important.

* To date I still struggle to get the LSP to work the Linux kernel on VSCode, but on Neovim I got it working.

IDE's have a lot of menu clutter that I struggle to make good use of-most programmers working on user-space apps, it is likely fine, but for the kernel, we often need more control.