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Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

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Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#171

Post by yuhong »

azakai wrote: post #100
Silhouette wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, even the ESR is only supported for about a year before being completely cut off in favour of a new ESR that has only been available for about 6-12 weeks at that point. There are some large businesses out there who run the same software foundation for a decade or more, not least because just evaluating a new version of something critical like an operating system or web browser can be a huge exercise if y…

> The thing is, even the ESR is only supported for about a year before being completely cut off in favour of a new ESR that has only been available for about 6-12 weeks at that point. There are some large businesses out there who run the same software foundation for a decade or more. For software like that, a web browser is not the right platform. Web browsers view a shared space which constantly changes and gets upd…

Indeed, the parent did say that:

>While I think it's unrealistic to expect an OSS browser to provide ongoing support for that long

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#172

Post by devicenull »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #62
dangoor wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Firefox developers care a good deal about memory management. More than Add-on authors unfortunately. We've had a project called MemShrink running for about a year and it has been making steady progress. and that progress has been shipping to users. The current Aurora channel release even has a fix for most add-on bad behavior. Firefox actually stacks up really well in memory usage (even in third party tests…

I quit firefox purely over its tendency to leak my entire RAM and force restarts. I was told at the time, and do believe, that the memory leaking was an addon problem. However... firefox was sold on the idea of addons. When your two main messages are "we're the most convenient browser; just look at all our awesome addons!" and "you can't use the addons, or your computer will implode", you've got a serious problem.

I had to stop using it at work.. I'd have to restart every 2-3 hours or performance became unbearably slow. The only other "solution" was to remove all my addons, and without the addons there was really no reason to continue using firefox (Firebug was supposedly the main issue, but without firebug I can't do any work)

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#173

Post by dredmorbius »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #163
conradfr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, memory has become better, but only marginally. That's why I use the "restartless restart" extension. And if you use Firebug, you are screwed as well, only quicker. I never really liked Chrome, but it's so fast and snappy, and Firefox has still not catch up in that area.

I had severe memory problems. Then on upgrade to, I think it was, FF11 firefox became so crash-prone that it was crashing on about every fifth page. Even "safe mode" wouldn't help. Then I created a new profile and it was amazing. FF has been running without crashes since (not one) and memory usage seems well balanced. Just FWIW.

Oh: profiles.

I can't be the only person who 1) totally doesn't understand why these exist (I strongly suspect they're a hangover from DOS-based MS Windows without proper user accounts), and 2) how to manage them (there are no profile management tools within Firefox that I'm aware).

Totally random and broken vestigial misfeature.

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#174

Post by dredmorbius »

botj wrote: post #106
forrestthewoods wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit using Firefox due to absolutely horrific memory management and I never used a single add-on ever. It was extremely frustrating because every time I went to a forum seeking help the first and only thing people would do is blame add-ons. It was so bad that I had to close firefox when I wanted to do anything else. If I played a full screen game it would work great for about half an hour the suddenly it'd chug alo…

Haters-be hate'n. And how exactly does the one process per tab of chrome address memory issues? Chrome is complete garbage for me after 30ish tabs. Talk about unresponsive...

In Chrome you can kill and/or restart tabs without losing your entire session.

State recovery is quite good for the most part, even if memory use is somewhat pants.

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#175

Post by dredmorbius »

thristian wrote: post #90
dredmorbius wrote: post #13

A lot of agreement. Some disagreements. Yes, frequent updates, especially those that break plugins, suck massively. Each update is a huge leap of dread into the "well, what's going to break this time" sea. The biggest single fault I've got with Firerfox (running FF13) isn't updates, it's memory usage. It still leaks massively, and pretty much requires a daily restart. State preservation is good enough that this doesn…

the change I'd like to see is one in which a small handful of tabs (I may easily run over 100) are considered "current and active" (foreground, pinned apps), and the rest function more as a stateful bookmark. Which, given that on crash recovery I tend to leave tabs unrefreshed until I actually open them, they largely are. That's exactly how I use tabs: I've got 77 tabs open right now, grouped into 9 different topic g…

When did "Don't load tabs until selected" show up?

Laptop runs Iceweasel 10, which doesn't have that. About to check about:config

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#176

Post by dredmorbius »

dangoor wrote: post #40
earl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing is that Chrome updates work. They've only broken something once in I think 3 years of daily use at this point (some update unchecked "warn before quitting"). They also don't generally create popups and the update process itself is literally invisible. Firefox on the other hand... sigh. I really liked that browser, but the updates, and the broken plugins, and the shit memory management, and the develop…

Actually, Firefox developers care a good deal about memory management. More than Add-on authors unfortunately. We've had a project called MemShrink running for about a year and it has been making steady progress. and that progress has been shipping to users. The current Aurora channel release even has a fix for most add-on bad behavior. Firefox actually stacks up really well in memory usage (even in third party tests…

Sorry, but not that I've seen in any version of Firefox I'm using. Presently ~15 at work (Ubuntu 11.10) and Iceweasel 10 at home. On an 8 GB system, I'm constantly reviewing my browser memory usage and killing/restarting browser sessions on account of memory usage. iceweasel VIRT presently 2163MB.

Sorry, but that's totally nuts.

Mozilla have been claiming "we've solved the memory leak problem" about as long as Microsoft have been claiming "we've solved the virus/security problem", or so it seems. With about the same level of credibility.

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#177

Post by dredmorbius »

bgruber wrote: post #110
dredmorbius wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well said. Previously, when I went to a new browser experience, I generally went to a new browser. There was Mosaic. Then Netscape. Then Galeon. Then Konqueror. Then Mozilla. Then Firefox. Galeon was probably the most jarring of the bunch. It started as a highly power-user friendly advanced (for the time) browser. Then the GNOME project "adopted" it as its default browser ... and instilled it with "simple user"…

oh galeon, how i miss thee, particularly your sane address bar tab-completion. anyone know if there's anything comparable as a chrome extension or firefox addon?

What was the address-bar tab-completion functionality?

Have you tried Vimperator for Firefox?

Modal, action happens on a status line at the bottom of the screen (allowing you to minimize navigation elements -- no navigation, menu, or toolbars). To open a new tab, type "t ", where "pattern" is either part of a URL or the title of a page or bookmark. To open Hacker News, for example, I generally type "t hack". If there are multiple matches, they appear as a list of items you can tab through (or which shrinks as you type additional characters for greater specificity). I like it.

Chrome's navigation is similar, but not quite as slick.

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#178

Post by dredmorbius »

snatch_backside wrote: post #107
AshleysBrain wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't users who don't like the new-fangled UI just stay on old versions? I know that ultimately creates compatibility headaches, but it at least gives them time to decide to move along.

Security vulnerabilities, sir.

That and websites insisting on new functionality. HTML5 and embedded video support, notably at present.

Re: Everybody Hates Firefox Updates

#179

Post by sur »

dredmorbius wrote: post #173
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had severe memory problems. Then on upgrade to, I think it was, FF11 firefox became so crash-prone that it was crashing on about every fifth page. Even "safe mode" wouldn't help. Then I created a new profile and it was amazing. FF has been running without crashes since (not one) and memory usage seems well balanced. Just FWIW.

Oh: profiles. I can't be the only person who 1) totally doesn't understand why these exist (I strongly suspect they're a hangover from DOS-based MS Windows without proper user accounts), and 2) how to manage them (there are no profile management tools within Firefox that I'm aware). Totally random and broken vestigial misfeature.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-...

It's just a command line argument.

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