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Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#141

Post by em-bee »

zdragnar wrote: post #138
em-bee wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they come back with what you wanted, they'll resent your salary and have inflated expectations above reality that is something i worry about when i see a high offer. in part it's imposter syndrome, but also a lot of job descriptions are like we want the best, and you are super fast and an excellent this and perfect that, able to work in a high pressure environment, etc. these claims are so meaningless. they d…

This really depends on the company. If they have interviewed you and made an offer, then it is only a question of whether you think they got to know you. Personally, I like small companies / startups with a bit more pressure. People focus more on getting things done than playing politics and bike shedding. I can absolutely understand it is not for everyone though. With regards to what you quoted, I was referring to t…

i have worked in startups, and i don't mind the pressure that comes from the high risk a startup is taking, but when i see a 500+ employee company with a job ad that says "you strive in a high pressure environment", then i wonder just what kind of pressure they are talking about.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#142

Post by 1123581321 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #129
1123581321 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I was thinking of how you have 2-3 recruiters trying to get you offers at different companies that are mostly equivalent.

Have you seen the market since 2022? I’ve been in software development since 1996 and looked for a job in 1999, 2001 (took a counteroffer), 2008, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018, 2023 and a month ago. My job in BigTech in 2020 fell in my lap. I have never seen a job market this bad. Even in 2000, as a regular old Windows developer I could easily find a standard enterprise job. My only saving grace when I was looking both last…

Appreciate sharing that experience. I’d wondered about the pros and cons of AWS Professional Services especially; almost went there once…

I have recent experience. It’s definitely slower in the last 2.5 years. I see that as a different issue. If the hiring market is soft, then a recruiter can still be working hard for you if your offers aren’t as good. Some of that sorts out earlier in the process when you pitch yourself to the recruiter to be worth presenting to the employer.

What I personally did in early conversations is express my comfort with a longer search process and focus on the right mutual fit. That let them know that they may be overlapping with other applications, and also that they were competing with my job at the time. I realize I was fortunate to have a job to use as a motivator.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#143

Post by khedoros1 »

throwaway123467 wrote: post #117
goldeneye13_ wrote: post #36

I always recommend this article: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I think this topic is super important and I’m really glad I didn’t follow advice of saying your “expected salary or expected +20%”. Here my anecdotal SWE salary history: Worked at a startup for a bunch of years making 90k by the end Got offered a place at FAANG. Recruiter pushed me a little bit on expected salary but I didn’t gi…

Similar: My first job out of college was ~a year after the Great Recession, so everything I looked at said to expect ~$35k starting salary. Maybe I could've asked for $40k if I'd followed salary negotiation advice. Instead I didn't volunteer anything and the first offer I got was $50k.

I started my first job in 2008. I had a friend who got a job doing software development for a city government at $60k. I interviewed at a big tech company. I don't remember even being asked about my salary expectation. The offer came at $75k. I'd been expecting 40-50, based on what the career center at school was telling me.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#144

Post by chipdart »

scarface_74 wrote: post #137
chipdart wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would think that about 20-30% are “senior”. I think your assumption is way off. From what I've gathered, each team typically has a single L6 engineer (some have zero), and each independent organization has a single L7 engineer. We're talking one senior engineer per 9-12 engineers, one principal per around 50 engineers. Senior engineers tend to have a 1:1 correspondence with software development managers, whereas…

My only anecdote is from ProServe where I use to work. But admittedly, I forgot that my part of ProServe didn’t really hire L4s. We would take a very few as interns and give them return offers.

It's not about interns, it's about roles.

L6s are tasked with interfacing with higher-ups, such as product owners and senior managements. They coordinate with principal engineers to design and deliver critical features. They help communicate and coordinate tasks with SDMs about the work that other SDEs need to do to reach goals.

By design, they are normally one senior SDE per team, and a single principal engineer per organization. They are there so that senior managers and executives can discuss plans, goals, and roadmaps. You definitely do not need a team full of interfaces.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#145

Post by harimau777 »

akomtu wrote: post #45
harimau777 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why they demand high salaries. You are paying so much to convince them to build boring software instead of the fancy bridges and gothic temples.

Rather than hiring architects as landscapers and paying them a lot to trash their skills, I tell candidates upfront that the job is to mow a lawn and the pay is appropriate for the job.

Aren't the landscapers still trashing their skills? They are giving up the opportunity to develop the architecture skills that they need in order to get better roles in the future.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#146

Post by MichaelZuo »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #27

In general, vertical movement in the tech sector is near zero these days. Thus do a search on the government published wage ranges for the mean/maximum listed for your region (this is what HR does anyway.) The mistake people make is forgetting to sum up the liabilities of working at some firms: 1. Commute time/costs from home at rush hour (3 hours a day is equivalent to a 30% to 40% pay cut) 2. Cost of both temporary…

Huh? Thousands of people are promoted every year in the big tech companies into seven figure positions. And many many tens of thousand into mid six figure positions.

How is that ‘near zero’?

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#147

Post by Joel_Mckay »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #146
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #27

In general, vertical movement in the tech sector is near zero these days. Thus do a search on the government published wage ranges for the mean/maximum listed for your region (this is what HR does anyway.) The mistake people make is forgetting to sum up the liabilities of working at some firms: 1. Commute time/costs from home at rush hour (3 hours a day is equivalent to a 30% to 40% pay cut) 2. Cost of both temporary…

Huh? Thousands of people are promoted every year in the big tech companies into seven figure positions. And many many tens of thousand into mid six figure positions. How is that ‘near zero’?

The vast majority of tech workers leave firms in under 3 years, move laterally, or are mission critical with meaningless title changes.

If you find 6 different division managers that entered the same facility as coders, than I may agree. You won't, but I respect your youthful idealism. =)

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#148

Post by ballowgail »

1123581321 wrote: post #96
scarface_74 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentive is not to make sure you get the most money. The incentive is to make sure you get placed fast. While $200K vs $220K means a lot to you over the course of your job, they aren’t going to risk losing a placement arguing for you to get $20K more so their firm can get $44K instead of $40k and the recruiter themselves can get maybe 60% of what the firm gets. There was a famous similar study published in Freak…

The thing is, they won’t get the placement if they don’t push to get a $220k offer and the other recruiter does. It’s competitive. It’s a better model than real estate because you aren’t agreed to work with one recruiter.

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Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#149

Post by MichaelZuo »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #147
MichaelZuo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Thousands of people are promoted every year in the big tech companies into seven figure positions. And many many tens of thousand into mid six figure positions. How is that ‘near zero’?

The vast majority of tech workers leave firms in under 3 years, move laterally, or are mission critical with meaningless title changes. If you find 6 different division managers that entered the same facility as coders, than I may agree. You won't, but I respect your youthful idealism. =)

Right, but the vast majority of tech workers by definition must be in the bottom 95% of workers.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#150

Post by ballowgail »

1123581321 wrote: post #128
scarface_74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But only one recruiter is going to be placing you at that job. Two recruiters trying to place you at the same job is radioactive to the company. The company has to decide who gets the referral money. Lawsuits start happening for the one who doesn’t get referral money. Also most companies who do work with external recruiters only work with one company

True. I was thinking of how you have 2-3 recruiters trying to get you offers at different companies that are mostly equivalent.

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