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Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#131

Post by btwitch »

goldeneye13_ wrote: post #36

I always recommend this article: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I think this topic is super important and I’m really glad I didn’t follow advice of saying your “expected salary or expected +20%”. Here my anecdotal SWE salary history: Worked at a startup for a bunch of years making 90k by the end Got offered a place at FAANG. Recruiter pushed me a little bit on expected salary but I didn’t gi…

I wish we had dates to tie to these numbers; inflation is hard to contextualize.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#132

Post by musicale »

lethologica wrote: post #75

This whole game is so stupid to me. It really feels like the employer is trying to screw over the potential employee before they’ve even joined. My default answer to these questions is now “what’s your budget?” And if they return with a non answer, or try and push me to give a number without giving one themselves, I walk. I can’t think of anywhere else where the seller (in this case the employer “selling” a position)…

> It really feels like the employer is trying to screw over the potential employee before they’ve even joined

Oh, you noticed.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#134

Post by chipdart »

scarface_74 wrote: post #120
ryandrake wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, FAANG L6 and above are what, 10% of each FAANG? Maybe 5%? Probably 0.1% of the tech workforce. you're not talking about a normal job ere.

L6 for Amazon is Senior, L4 is mid and L4 is junior. Below that are the non “blue badge” employees - factory workers, drivers, etc. I would think that about 20-30% are “senior”. I worked at AWS for 3.5 years until last year. I would assume the distribution is about the same thing for most other tech companies. Doing a quick bit of research, you’re not to far off. My back of the envelop math is about 7.5% work at FAAN…

> I would think that about 20-30% are “senior”.

I think your assumption is way off. From what I've gathered, each team typically has a single L6 engineer (some have zero), and each independent organization has a single L7 engineer. We're talking one senior engineer per 9-12 engineers, one principal per around 50 engineers.

Senior engineers tend to have a 1:1 correspondence with software development managers, whereas principal engineers have a 1:1 correspondence with senior managers.

> I would think that about 20-30% are “senior”.

You should check your notes, as they are way off. Even if you Google the topic you get 15% senior engineer, 2% principal engineers. I know for a fact that flagship organizations within Amazon have a single principal engineer, 4 or 5 senior engineers, and around 50 L4-L5.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#135

Post by zemvpferreira »

michaelt wrote: post #72
goldeneye13_ wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice I’m not suggesting that people go for “hard” negotiation. You don’t loose anything by not revealing comp early. Worst case you will get offer that’s too low. But best case you get offered above what you expected.

> You don’t loose anything by not revealing comp early. The benefit is, if they can't pay you enough to join them, you don't have to waste your time going through some six-interview multiday gauntlet.

I don't mean to point fingers but it's telling that OP talks about maximising salary, while you talk about minimising effort.

I'm not interested in going through the gauntlet either, but these things are surely related.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#136

Post by n_ary »

ewuhic wrote: post #63
goldeneye13_ wrote: post #36

I always recommend this article: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I think this topic is super important and I’m really glad I didn’t follow advice of saying your “expected salary or expected +20%”. Here my anecdotal SWE salary history: Worked at a startup for a bunch of years making 90k by the end Got offered a place at FAANG. Recruiter pushed me a little bit on expected salary but I didn’t gi…

Ah, the United States of America, this is hardly possible in Europe, especially Germany.

Germany needs to regulate a mandatory posting of the pay range with every job being posted. The power dynamic is very skewed towards employers because when you send in your application, you must also indicate your pay expectations but employers (except select few) never post the pay ranges. In the end what happens is that, two seniors in the same team will earn in 50-70% difference while doing the same duties.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#137

Post by scarface_74 »

chipdart wrote: post #134
scarface_74 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

L6 for Amazon is Senior, L4 is mid and L4 is junior. Below that are the non “blue badge” employees - factory workers, drivers, etc. I would think that about 20-30% are “senior”. I worked at AWS for 3.5 years until last year. I would assume the distribution is about the same thing for most other tech companies. Doing a quick bit of research, you’re not to far off. My back of the envelop math is about 7.5% work at FAAN…

> I would think that about 20-30% are “senior”. I think your assumption is way off. From what I've gathered, each team typically has a single L6 engineer (some have zero), and each independent organization has a single L7 engineer. We're talking one senior engineer per 9-12 engineers, one principal per around 50 engineers. Senior engineers tend to have a 1:1 correspondence with software development managers, whereas…

My only anecdote is from ProServe where I use to work. But admittedly, I forgot that my part of ProServe didn’t really hire L4s. We would take a very few as interns and give them return offers.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#138

Post by zdragnar »

em-bee wrote: post #105
zdragnar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is more insulting to someone than knowing in advance that their expectations are far beyond your own, putting them through hours of interviews, then offering half the salary they asked for plus funny money equity. I try to be as up front as possible with my expectations, but I've also got the seniority / experience to match what I'm asking for. Yet, people still try to low ball me as if I'm making up numbers.…

Even if they come back with what you wanted, they'll resent your salary and have inflated expectations above reality that is something i worry about when i see a high offer. in part it's imposter syndrome, but also a lot of job descriptions are like we want the best, and you are super fast and an excellent this and perfect that, able to work in a high pressure environment, etc. these claims are so meaningless. they d…

This really depends on the company. If they have interviewed you and made an offer, then it is only a question of whether you think they got to know you.

Personally, I like small companies / startups with a bit more pressure. People focus more on getting things done than playing politics and bike shedding. I can absolutely understand it is not for everyone though.

With regards to what you quoted, I was referring to the scenario where their initial offer was below your expectations, you said no, and they made a second offer that met your expectations. In this case, you're right, there is no way that you and the company have the same view of the monetary worth of your contributions. The well has been poisoned from the start.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#139

Post by Thorrez »

pm90 wrote: post #58
Thorrez wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not disclose it and also say "it's not up for any negotiation".

Remember that people go by what others do. There is 0 penalty for lying about the fact that the number is not negotiable and so recruiters will do that often. So job applicants are conditioned to try to negotiate even if told quite clearly that its the “final number”.

I'm not surprised that people still try to negotiate. I am surprised that they're irreconcilably annoyed when negotiating fails.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#140

Post by JohnFen »

What I personally do is two things.

Before I've even had an interview, I have an acceptable salary range in mind. I usually ask for the top end of that range and have room to negotiate down, so when I'm asked that question, I have an answer at the ready.

The other is that I never reveal my past salary. Revealing it is a trap in so many different ways, and it's none of their business.

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