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Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

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Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#51
post #6

Maybe we need to, I dunno, rethink the way we work in general. Stop chasing silver bullets and admit that movement is medicine. Reading articles like this reminds me of the people I've watched exhaust every possible option for weight loss save for mindful eating and exercise.

Completely agree with you. However, what does this mean for a software engineer or anyone who must be in front of a computer for extended periods of time? I’ve moved to biking everywhere and daily walks with the dogs, but still have 8 hours where I’m mostly sedentary

I've developed two habits that work well for me:

1. Taking walks during the day. I have figured out a lot of tricky design and even debugging questions by taking a walk. And even if I don't think about programming directly, it still clears my head. Splitting my day up with an hour (or longer) walk leaves me more effective than spending the same time in front of my computer. I usually work remotely, so often this involves walking to a cafe, doing some work there and walking back.

2. Taking walking meetings. I've found this works well for 1:1s, and it works reasonably well for large calls where I don't need to participate much. There are lots of meetings where it's too awkward or doesn't work at all, but converting even a small fraction of my meetings to walking meetings is a real improvement.

Of course, both of these assume a flexible culture where this does not make me look like a slacker and where I can take meetings in different ways. But I figure that's a minimum for having a healthy and productive work environment regardless!

Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#52
post #6

Maybe we need to, I dunno, rethink the way we work in general. Stop chasing silver bullets and admit that movement is medicine. Reading articles like this reminds me of the people I've watched exhaust every possible option for weight loss save for mindful eating and exercise.

Next fad: treadmill desks.

Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree with you. However, what does this mean for a software engineer or anyone who must be in front of a computer for extended periods of time? I’ve moved to biking everywhere and daily walks with the dogs, but still have 8 hours where I’m mostly sedentary

My 2c if helpful: the solution was to question deeper assumptions. Why are you at a desk? Because you have to work 8 hours. Why? Because your job requires it. Why do you have that job? Because you need income to live. Is a job the only way to have income to live? (See: FI). Ultimately the root cause is not being in control of your time. It takes time, but once solved the downstream problems solve themselves. You can…

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Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#55

> The researchers found no association between time spent standing and the risk of cardiovascular disease, suggesting standing desks and similar work postures might not be enough to stave off the health problems associated with sitting around. I always assumed it was also probably pretty good for my back and neck - I'd love to see a study on that.

I have a belief that a lot of (but certainly not all) back pain is caused by weak back muscles. Back muscles support the spine and hold it straight against the weight of the abdomen. Like all muscles, they atrophy if you don't exercise them. The very best way to exercise them is to spend most of your day standing, walking, and a good part of it running. Which is what evolution designed our bodies to do.

I had a standing desk at work and while I only used it for a couple hours a day, it helped GREATLY in erasing my chronic back pain.

The fact that they studied standing desks in particular is a bit odd, but it fits into the growing body of evidence showing that activity and fitness don't have nearly as big an impact on cardiovascular disease as diet does.

Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#57

“ standing for long periods of time might not be much better than sitting after all” Well duh, if you trade one sedentary all-day posture for another sedentary all-day posture it’s not likely to be of much benefit. The point of standing desks is to vary posture during the day and being able to choose to stand or sit while continuing to work gives you one more way to achieve this. Mix with breaks and walks and it’s st…

Exactly. I mostly sit. When I move the desk to a standing position it lets me walk around a bit while working. Press compile and then walk a bit back while thinking. It is a wonderful tool.

Static standing all day is horrible, that isn't news.

Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#58

“ standing for long periods of time might not be much better than sitting after all” Well duh, if you trade one sedentary all-day posture for another sedentary all-day posture it’s not likely to be of much benefit. The point of standing desks is to vary posture during the day and being able to choose to stand or sit while continuing to work gives you one more way to achieve this. Mix with breaks and walks and it’s st…

I'm sure this is very variable person-to-person. I stand 98% of the time, not for any theoretical health reason, but because I find it far more comfortable. I have terrible posture when sitting and made little progress in trying to correct it. Switching to standing all-but eliminated my lower back pain and most of my neck pain.

The only time I sit these days is if I'm extremely tired for some reason. I have been doing this for more than 10 years now though, and it took a while until it became easy.

Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#59

> The researchers found no association between time spent standing and the risk of cardiovascular disease, suggesting standing desks and similar work postures might not be enough to stave off the health problems associated with sitting around. I always assumed it was also probably pretty good for my back and neck - I'd love to see a study on that.

For something between standing and sitting, you could use a stool as I do. I have a bad back and I find it to be better than any chair I've used so far, though I've only tried a few. You still get a slight bit of elevated heart rate and caloric expenditure to keep your body firm and in good posture so I'd say it's better than sitting and more relaxing than standing. You also don't have to remind yourself to get up and move every once in a while because if you're practicing good posture, you won't be too comfortable.

Re: Standing desk might be as bad as sitting all day

#60
post #37

My idea to solve all this would be to change how computing is done. We don't talk about radical disruptive ideas enough these days. What if we don't have to interact with computers from a stationary position at all? VR headsets are one direction that might help with this, but in my view there is another way. Decouple peripherals and computing units fully. You'd carry around with you a battery unit that will charge di…

I see the big issues as: 1. Input accuracy, speed, and fatigue. Stick your keyboard to a wall and try standing next to it typing for an hour. Even if somehow gestures/sign-language are viable, your arms will get tired, and only a few people will power through the pain with the excuse that it's a form of exercise. 2. Motion sickness and physical safety. We make dedicated workspaces because we need to control external…

I've made basically a keytar - just a flat board hanging down like a guitar, with a guitar strap for it, and then I mounted a (wireless) keyboard and trackpad to it (flat), so I can stand and type/mouse with my arms and hands hanging down. There's still fatigue, but there's not the same need for gorilla arms. So I don't see 1 as insurmountable.
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