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Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#111

Post by goldeneye13_ »

ryandrake wrote: post #98
goldeneye13_ wrote: post #36

I always recommend this article: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I think this topic is super important and I’m really glad I didn’t follow advice of saying your “expected salary or expected +20%”. Here my anecdotal SWE salary history: Worked at a startup for a bunch of years making 90k by the end Got offered a place at FAANG. Recruiter pushed me a little bit on expected salary but I didn’t gi…

This just seems incredible to me, to the point where I almost can't believe it. Throughout my 25+ year career, I've 1. never been positively surprised by the number I got, and 2. never had a company increase from their starting offer. It's always very close (within ~10-20%) to what I'm already expecting, plus "Take it or leave it. There's a line of 50 behind you willing to take that compensation." What are the exact…

You can check levels.fyi large faang l6 and above get those numbers. I think there is a massive gap between faang and similar and smaller places. When I got the recent crazy offer I interviewed in what I thought were good smaller companies and several offered me below my current salary. And a couple were in 110k range with absolutely no room for negotiation.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#112

Post by hinkley »

em-bee wrote: post #107
hinkley wrote: post #87

One of the places I applied to had a required field with salary expectation. I almost backed out of the whole process. I don’t think it was an accident that it was the very last field in the submission process. I forgot to write down which one it was in my notes. So that’s less data I’ll have if they call me back.

from the applications i looked at at least one third if not half of them had such a field

I'm sure as my sense of urgency and my sense of selectivity head in opposite directions I will think back to this comment. So far I've been picky and have seen more like 10% and most of that in the last couple weeks.

It may also depend which job site or application tool you're using.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#113

Post by scarface_74 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82
chamomeal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely bonkers. The range of developer salaries is so huge. Congrats on moving far above 90k!! What kind of work experience would you say was most valuable in climbing that ladder? Open source stuff? Anything you could show off?

I think the main thing his experience showed is that if you want to make a lot of money, you need to position yourself to move into industries that can pay a lot. For software engineers that means 3 major options: 1. The US tech giants (the "FAANGs"). These companies are so insanely profitable and they can afford to pay a lot, though they all have become more cost conscious in the past couple years. 2. Finance. Again…

For a real world anecdote:

I was leading enterprise app dev + AWS projects at a small startup making $x. I got a remote job working at AWS (Professional Services) as a mid level (full time direct hire) consultant making $x + 65K working remotely.

I got Amazoned and a year later, now I’m a “staff” consultant (full time) at a smaller consulting company making the same as I made as a mid level consultant at AWS.

If I were to work at GCP as a “senior” (one level down) I would be making $150k - $200K more than I am making now. But even that department has a return to office mandate. Maybe I would try it after getting a few more years under my belt working at this level

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#114

Post by scarface_74 »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #110
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see "know your worth" advice pretty frequently, and I tend to think it is pretty bad advice for software developers. "Your worth" is completely dependent on the business the employer is in, and then of course a lot of that "worth" can be due to the employer already having a huge market (e.g. I've seen small decisions result in multiple millions of additional revenue, but those multiple millions were only possible b…

I think we're in general agreement. I say that's what "know your worth" is about. If you choose a web dev position, you're probably less vital than someone who works deep down in compilers. Your worth is a mixture of (but not limited to) your expertise and how you sell yourself, the supply and health of the market, and what markets are offering vs. What they can potentially pay. Too many factors to give universal adv…

Your “worth” is completely dependent on where you work. That startup is never going to pay you as much as BigTech

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#115

Post by johnnyanmac »

scarface_74 wrote: post #114
johnnyanmac wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're in general agreement. I say that's what "know your worth" is about. If you choose a web dev position, you're probably less vital than someone who works deep down in compilers. Your worth is a mixture of (but not limited to) your expertise and how you sell yourself, the supply and health of the market, and what markets are offering vs. What they can potentially pay. Too many factors to give universal adv…

Your “worth” is completely dependent on where you work. That startup is never going to pay you as much as BigTech

Sure. that's part of "what they could potentially pay you". Startups don't have money for 400k engineers without crazy VC money and a ton of confidence. For the rest, they offer equity.

If that's what you seek or think is your worth is an entirely different discussion.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#116

Post by ryandrake »

goldeneye13_ wrote: post #111
ryandrake wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just seems incredible to me, to the point where I almost can't believe it. Throughout my 25+ year career, I've 1. never been positively surprised by the number I got, and 2. never had a company increase from their starting offer. It's always very close (within ~10-20%) to what I'm already expecting, plus "Take it or leave it. There's a line of 50 behind you willing to take that compensation." What are the exact…

You can check levels.fyi large faang l6 and above get those numbers. I think there is a massive gap between faang and similar and smaller places. When I got the recent crazy offer I interviewed in what I thought were good smaller companies and several offered me below my current salary. And a couple were in 110k range with absolutely no room for negotiation.

To be fair, FAANG L6 and above are what, 10% of each FAANG? Maybe 5%? Probably 0.1% of the tech workforce. you're not talking about a normal job ere.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#117

Post by throwaway123467 »

goldeneye13_ wrote: post #36

I always recommend this article: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I think this topic is super important and I’m really glad I didn’t follow advice of saying your “expected salary or expected +20%”. Here my anecdotal SWE salary history: Worked at a startup for a bunch of years making 90k by the end Got offered a place at FAANG. Recruiter pushed me a little bit on expected salary but I didn’t gi…

Similar: My first job out of college was ~a year after the Great Recession, so everything I looked at said to expect ~$35k starting salary. Maybe I could've asked for $40k if I'd followed salary negotiation advice. Instead I didn't volunteer anything and the first offer I got was $50k.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#118

Post by sn9 »

ryandrake wrote: post #98
goldeneye13_ wrote: post #36

I always recommend this article: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I think this topic is super important and I’m really glad I didn’t follow advice of saying your “expected salary or expected +20%”. Here my anecdotal SWE salary history: Worked at a startup for a bunch of years making 90k by the end Got offered a place at FAANG. Recruiter pushed me a little bit on expected salary but I didn’t gi…

This just seems incredible to me, to the point where I almost can't believe it. Throughout my 25+ year career, I've 1. never been positively surprised by the number I got, and 2. never had a company increase from their starting offer. It's always very close (within ~10-20%) to what I'm already expecting, plus "Take it or leave it. There's a line of 50 behind you willing to take that compensation." What are the exact…

You should really read the kalzumeus salary link for the exact words and methods.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#119

Post by XajniN »

2-3-7-43-1807 wrote: post #92

if submissions like these make you feel like a loser. i'm in germany and make 65k. and yet i can still look myself in the eyes in front of the mirror every morning. so, don't let this drag you down.

Would you be interested in moving to the Czech Republic for a better salary?

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#120

Post by scarface_74 »

ryandrake wrote: post #116
goldeneye13_ wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can check levels.fyi large faang l6 and above get those numbers. I think there is a massive gap between faang and similar and smaller places. When I got the recent crazy offer I interviewed in what I thought were good smaller companies and several offered me below my current salary. And a couple were in 110k range with absolutely no room for negotiation.

To be fair, FAANG L6 and above are what, 10% of each FAANG? Maybe 5%? Probably 0.1% of the tech workforce. you're not talking about a normal job ere.

L6 for Amazon is Senior, L4 is mid and L4 is junior. Below that are the non “blue badge” employees - factory workers, drivers, etc.

I would think that about 20-30% are “senior”. I worked at AWS for 3.5 years until last year. I would assume the distribution is about the same thing for most other tech companies.

Doing a quick bit of research, you’re not to far off. My back of the envelop math is about 7.5% work at FAANG + Microsoft. Maybe 10% if you include other companies that pay in that range

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