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Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#41

Post by lolinder »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #23
voytec wrote: post #19

I've talked to several recruiters and HR people who were prepared for quite a different answer than I gave to this question. I got the feeling that several interviews were carried out afterwards out of politeness or because the recruiter "had to" do it, but the interview ended before it began. Than, there's either ghosting or almost immediate (like up to an hour past the interview) copy-paste email along the lines of…

>Pointing out 20+ years of experience and listing accomplishments seems less important for a lot of businesses, than paying as little as possible. If paying as little as possible wasn't that important to them, they wouldn't be hiring in Warsaw in the first place, but in the Bay Area, Seattle, Zurich, London, Sydney, etc

Presumably we're talking about remote roles here, in which case this is nonsense. A Zurich developer is not worth more in a remote role than a developer in Warsaw. The only reason large cities have inflated salaries is because that's what you have to pay someone for them to live within range of your fancy office. If it's a remote role anyway, the companies that aren't out to exploit you will pay the same salary band for all roles anywhere where they hire.

Location-based pay in remote roles is a major red flag that the company doesn't reward merit.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#42

Post by grugagag »

voytec wrote: post #30
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pointing out 20+ years of experience and listing accomplishments seems less important for a lot of businesses, than paying as little as possible. If paying as little as possible wasn't that important to them, they wouldn't be hiring in Warsaw in the first place, but in the Bay Area, Seattle, Zurich, London, Sydney, etc

I'm not interacting with companies seeking cheap labor in Poland - like Intel. Despite their quite active recruiters, all conversations with whom end up at "company policy doesn't allow me to discuss salary range". I've set up a small business with EU tax id over a decade ago and I'm issuing invoices to European countries (EU and Schengen) and North America. It's a trade-off of giving up European employment safety, p…

I agree with you but your locals need to be educated on this issue. Many may think it’s a good deal, especially if promises are thrown in. They would sabotage themselves but it’ll take some time for them to find out it’s a bad deal.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#43

Post by harimau777 »

akomtu wrote: post #31
voytec wrote: post #19

I've talked to several recruiters and HR people who were prepared for quite a different answer than I gave to this question. I got the feeling that several interviews were carried out afterwards out of politeness or because the recruiter "had to" do it, but the interview ended before it began. Than, there's either ghosting or almost immediate (like up to an hour past the interview) copy-paste email along the lines of…

Most of the software is more like landscaping than architecture, but software engineers want to build fancy bridges and gothic temples.

That's why they demand high salaries. You are paying so much to convince them to build boring software instead of the fancy bridges and gothic temples.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#44

Post by sklivvz1971 »

Here's the thing:

- the candidate has a range of salary they expect or need

- the company has a range of salaries that they can pay

If these don't overlap there's no point going forward unless the range of the company is higher.

If these do overlap, it's worthwhile proceeding. Then it's a matter of skill. If you apply and ask for the top range in my salary band, and you are truly exceptional, I'll do my best to match it. But the ask needs to be commensurate to the skills you demonstrate in the interviews. The higher the ask, the stricter the criteria to match.

If you get to the end of the process without disclosing the salary, and you pass all interviews, I'll offer you for what I think you are worth. If you have an ask and did not disclose it, you might have just wasted everybody's time.

Believe it or not, negotiating a salary higher than your worth is a terrible idea. It might sound good, but it sets you up for failure.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#45

Post by akomtu »

harimau777 wrote: post #43
akomtu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the software is more like landscaping than architecture, but software engineers want to build fancy bridges and gothic temples.

That's why they demand high salaries. You are paying so much to convince them to build boring software instead of the fancy bridges and gothic temples.

Rather than hiring architects as landscapers and paying them a lot to trash their skills, I tell candidates upfront that the job is to mow a lawn and the pay is appropriate for the job.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#46

Post by scarface_74 »

tomp wrote: post #32
scarface_74 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incentive is not to make sure you get the most money. The incentive is to make sure you get placed fast. While $200K vs $220K means a lot to you over the course of your job, they aren’t going to risk losing a placement arguing for you to get $20K more so their firm can get $44K instead of $40k and the recruiter themselves can get maybe 60% of what the firm gets. There was a famous similar study published in Freak…

200 vs 220 is likely noise. The recruiter shouldn’t care about tha2, and neither should you. But £200k vs £400k is real! That’s the real span for e.g. hedge funds in London. Actually, it was a few years ago. Probably more now!

You shouldn’t care about $20K???

In 10 years invested at $20K a year that’s 370k at 10% returns (about average for the S&P 500).

Thinking like that is how car manufacturers get people to pay for useless add ons.

On top of that, raises are usually a percentage of current base.

Would you tell someone making $20K not to worry about $40K

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#47

Post by chamomeal »

goldeneye13_ wrote: post #36

I always recommend this article: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I think this topic is super important and I’m really glad I didn’t follow advice of saying your “expected salary or expected +20%”. Here my anecdotal SWE salary history: Worked at a startup for a bunch of years making 90k by the end Got offered a place at FAANG. Recruiter pushed me a little bit on expected salary but I didn’t gi…

That is absolutely bonkers. The range of developer salaries is so huge. Congrats on moving far above 90k!!

What kind of work experience would you say was most valuable in climbing that ladder? Open source stuff? Anything you could show off?

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#48

Post by zdragnar »

sklivvz1971 wrote: post #44

Here's the thing: - the candidate has a range of salary they expect or need - the company has a range of salaries that they can pay If these don't overlap there's no point going forward unless the range of the company is higher. If these do overlap, it's worthwhile proceeding. Then it's a matter of skill. If you apply and ask for the top range in my salary band, and you are truly exceptional, I'll do my best to match…

Nothing is more insulting to someone than knowing in advance that their expectations are far beyond your own, putting them through hours of interviews, then offering half the salary they asked for plus funny money equity.

I try to be as up front as possible with my expectations, but I've also got the seniority / experience to match what I'm asking for. Yet, people still try to low ball me as if I'm making up numbers.

I made the mistake once of taking a job after they low balled me, then met my asking salary after I flatly said no.

If you ask for a specific number or a range, and they offer you below that range, just walk away. Even if they come back with what you wanted, they'll resent your salary and have inflated expectations above reality. They've already demonstrated they didn't take you seriously. Just walk away.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#49

Post by wordofx »

scarface_74 wrote: post #14
wordofx wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiters only get paid if a candidate stays beyond a period of time. If the candidate does not work out the recruiter needs to find a replacement. Recruiters won’t deal with shit people because if they don’t stay or are prone to not working out they are a burden. In terms of money it’s usually a percentage of the salary. So if the recruiter works on 10% then they have incentive to get you as much money as possible.

The incentive is not to make sure you get the most money. The incentive is to make sure you get placed fast. While $200K vs $220K means a lot to you over the course of your job, they aren’t going to risk losing a placement arguing for you to get $20K more so their firm can get $44K instead of $40k and the recruiter themselves can get maybe 60% of what the firm gets. There was a famous similar study published in Freak…

> The incentive is to make sure you get placed fast.

No. If you place someone and the company has a 3 month probation period. If the person does not last past probation the recruiter does not get paid.

Unless America is different, this is how it works in Europe, Asia, AU/NZ.

The only time this changes is contract work because contract work done via a recruiter is the recruiter might charge you at $150/hr to the company and pay you $100/hr taking $50/hr for himself.

Re: Salary expectations questions – How should you answer them? (2020)

#50

Post by sklivvz1971 »

eastbound wrote: post #13

The real important question is the subsequent one: — What are your salary expectations? — $X — Ok! That means if we propose Y, would you envision it? — Yeah, maybe, because I’m out of choice / No because I already have an offer at $X-1. Source: I’m hiring (and yes, Y enters into consideration because most candidates overestimate their skills, but I always go for X if the candidate is as expected).

> most candidates overestimate their skills

In reality most candidate are just bad at estimating their own skills (in both directions) and of course they know almost nothing about the match between the skills and the position.

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