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ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

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Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#81

Post by adamgordonbell »

dagmx wrote: post #56

The premise of this post is incorrect. ReiserFS stuck around for almost two decades after his crime. The reason it’s being removed has very little to do with his crime and more to do with the stability and maintenance capabilities of it. For reference, his wife was missing in 2006. He was prosecuted in 2008. It was deprecated in 2022 and scheduled to be removed in 2025. How does someone believe that it’s due to his h…

The episode does not say it's being removed because of his crime.

If it seems to imply that, then that is a mistake I've made, as is not the intention.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#82

Post by dijit »

dagmx wrote: post #77
dijit wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No problem mate, it's a terrible name to google, I understand. Here it is, the service is called "AFS": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Filing_Protocol

Ah the SMB alternative. Okay yes I’m familiar with that. Unfortunately it was still frequently in use 10 years ago on Apple systems (particularly the time capsule which was only discontinued in 2018) , and there are derivatives in use today. So I’m not sure it’s an apt comparison point. The Wikipedia article actually links to implementations like netatalk that have updates as recently as a couple months ago. So it is…

netatalk and AFS are similar but truly not the same, netatalk in linux does not afaik have an actual kernel driver.

AFS however, does, and I was doing MacOS sysadmin work in 2011 and it was strongly discouraged to use anything other than SMB, which frustrated me because samba3 was a pain and I considered SMB a windows technology at the time.

The time capsule as you mention also discontinued the usage of AFS after the first version (I actually have 3 at home right now still, a 1st gen, 2nd gen and last gen - the tall one).

AFS's use today, not sure, but as mentioned, 13 years ago at least it was strongly discourage by Apple themselves.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#83

Post by Blackthorn »

Kye wrote: post #64
Blackthorn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The topic on my mind around this was: in the large, like MJ or Woody Allen, it's hard to make a call on the art vs. artist Why do people think this is a dichotomy, or a call to be made in the first place? Instead of artist being an inseparable part of the art itself? Chuck Tingle put it pretty well: > strange when buds talk on 'separate the art from the artist'. a painting is not just a square that ends at canvas e…

One of the great thinkers of our time.

I completely agree, with no irony.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#84

Post by dagmx »

dijit wrote: post #82
dagmx wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the SMB alternative. Okay yes I’m familiar with that. Unfortunately it was still frequently in use 10 years ago on Apple systems (particularly the time capsule which was only discontinued in 2018) , and there are derivatives in use today. So I’m not sure it’s an apt comparison point. The Wikipedia article actually links to implementations like netatalk that have updates as recently as a couple months ago. So it is…

netatalk and AFS are similar but truly not the same, netatalk in linux does not afaik have an actual kernel driver. AFS however, does, and I was doing MacOS sysadmin work in 2011 and it was strongly discouraged to use anything other than SMB, which frustrated me because samba3 was a pain and I considered SMB a windows technology at the time. The time capsule as you mention also discontinued the usage of AFS after the…

AFP was still the default though in 2012. And even though you weren’t able to provision new time capsules to communicate over AFP, it was still supported.

I’d bet there’s a significantly larger set of devices active at any given time during the existence of ReiserFS to today that still use AFP.

And I’ll point to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42101313 that says AFP has no kernel support, but something else called Andrew File System does.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#85

Post by dagmx »

wrs wrote: post #80
dagmx wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t find a reference to a filesystem called AFS. Would you have a link? As far as I know there was Macintosh File System (MFS) which was replaced by HFS/+ and finally APFS. But ReiserFS was also infamous for its difficult to maintain nature at the time of its inclusion. Linus himself was against a lot of aspects of it. They capitulated to community pressure to include it, but it was always going to be a project w…

AFS, the Andrew File System, has kernel support. [0] AFP, the Apple Filing Protocol, is a network protocol, not a filesystem. It has several userspace implementations. [1] AFS, the Apple File Service, is AFP plus other auxiliary protocols. [1] APFS, the Apple File System used in modern MacOS, has read only support in userspace, and there is work on a read/write kernel module that is not mainlined. [2] [4] HFS, the Hi…

Thanks. These are great reference links.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#86

Post by dagmx »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #81
dagmx wrote: post #56

The premise of this post is incorrect. ReiserFS stuck around for almost two decades after his crime. The reason it’s being removed has very little to do with his crime and more to do with the stability and maintenance capabilities of it. For reference, his wife was missing in 2006. He was prosecuted in 2008. It was deprecated in 2022 and scheduled to be removed in 2025. How does someone believe that it’s due to his h…

The episode does not say it's being removed because of his crime. If it seems to imply that, then that is a mistake I've made, as is not the intention.

Fair enough, though I think that even if you don’t explicitly say it, the whole Artist vs Art framing only leaves that interpretation. As can be seen by the rest of the responses here.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#87

Post by dijit »

dagmx wrote: post #84
dijit wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

netatalk and AFS are similar but truly not the same, netatalk in linux does not afaik have an actual kernel driver. AFS however, does, and I was doing MacOS sysadmin work in 2011 and it was strongly discouraged to use anything other than SMB, which frustrated me because samba3 was a pain and I considered SMB a windows technology at the time. The time capsule as you mention also discontinued the usage of AFS after the…

AFP was still the default though in 2012. And even though you weren’t able to provision new time capsules to communicate over AFP, it was still supported. I’d bet there’s a significantly larger set of devices active at any given time during the existence of ReiserFS to today that still use AFP. And I’ll point to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42101313 that says AFP has no kernel support, but something else call…

Well, the "simple, incomplete" Andrew Filesystem is actually an even better example then, as it cannot possibly have users as it's incomplete but has been in Linux since 2004.

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#89

Post by mardifoufs »

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #48
adamgordonbell wrote: post #3

Hey, I made this. It uses OpenAI voices for Hans and others, which some found too robotic. The topic on my mind around this was: in the large, like MJ or Woody Allen, it's hard to make a call on the art vs. artist. But in the small, it's much easier because people aren't divided into domains. It's all mixed together. And if you can't work with people, if you can't be a team player you limit your abilities. ReiserFS4…

> It uses OpenAI voices for Hans and others I usually shun AI because of the numerous hallucinations, but it’s the first time I think “that’s fucking gross.” I mean, what’s the point of faking everything? Especially when it’s a murderer?

I mean, it's not like TTS is new? What's the issue with TTS?

Re: ReiserFS and the Art and Artist Problem

#90

Post by adamgordonbell »

dagmx wrote: post #86
adamgordonbell wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The episode does not say it's being removed because of his crime. If it seems to imply that, then that is a mistake I've made, as is not the intention.

Fair enough, though I think that even if you don’t explicitly say it, the whole Artist vs Art framing only leaves that interpretation. As can be seen by the rest of the responses here.

I think cmiller below nailed what I was trying to draw attention to:

    My takeaway was that Han's problems were intrinsically tied to the both the architecture and code in ways that made it difficult for others to contribute and fix. The artist's influence on the art caused its ultimate demise.
So is about art and artist, but no causation implied with Linux depreciation and the murder, but I get how people might think that.

But also I just wanted to share the story with those who may not have heard it.

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