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Linux Asceticism

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Re: Linux Asceticism

#51

Post by lambdaba »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #23

I don't get it, for me a computer is a tool. I want to get away from it as fast as possible, having to tweak the environment is a waste of time . That's why I like macos so much, nothing is perfect but I know that whatever I do there are tools somewhat easy to use . For instance I wanted to read an epub on my computer that runs windows, believe it or not but finding a good or even descent epub reader is a nightmare.…

> descent epub reader

I found Sumatra PDF to be great, at least at rendering / reading comfort.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#52

Post by lambdaba »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #25

I was unsurprised to find Arch and NixOS mentioned, they're more or less for asceticism, and they usually show up on the ascetic's path. But having learned the power of going without from Linux, there's a lot of similar places to go besides an increasing difficult progression of Linux distributions. Repeatable Builds is something that can be practiced without Linux, but which the Linux ascetic will find pleasingly au…

I haven't tried it but to me Void seems closer to that ideal, I think it's inspired by BSDs too.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#53

Post by GuB-42 »

sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

> Everything just works under Linux

If you mean a Linux desktop PC, then no. I have been using a Linux desktop for many years, but not exclusively. I have tried, but I always have had at least a dual-boot with Windows. Yes, you have more control under Linux, but the reason I still use Windows sometimes is that many things just don't work properly.

Just look at here for a list:

https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...

Or, from a less technical perspective, look at the LinusTechTips video series where he tries to use Linux as a daily driver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M

And I love linux, I have a Linux desktop at home, which is pretty minimal by the way (Debian mini.iso), and that that it doesn't do weird things behind my back is appreciable. But it absolutely doesn't "just work".

Re: Linux Asceticism

#54

Post by mmaunder »

This resonates with me. I think configuring Linux for on a Raspberry Pi for a specific task that includes network IO, storage and compute is a light version of the Askesis he describes. And absolutely a worthwhile exercise if nothing more.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#55

Post by sevensor »

TZubiri wrote: post #41
sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

Perhaps we have different definitions of ascetism. It's about having less, not more. Less guis, less random traffic, etc.. That said, linux is in a way like processed foods, and windows is organic. Linux is distilled down to the essential components through chemistry, it's like sugar or table salt, or maltodextrine. Windows is just a thing that is alive, but not even a single thing, it has a flora that the manufactur…

> Less guis, less random traffic,

I don’t become less ascetic by wearing fewer hair shirts.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#56

Post by marcosdumay »

kombine wrote: post #10
sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

I use the latest Fedora KDE on my laptop and I find it to be a better Windows desktop than Windows itself. I cannot even say it is ascetic - everything just works really really well.

Well, at it's at least one order of magnitude less broken than just-installed Windows...

But I've never had a computer where everything just works, I guess that's because I expect too much, but I could never say this.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#57

Post by doix »

sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

Yep, exact opposite for me too. I enjoy using Linux the way I have it setup and it brings me joy. I've practically removed/automated all my annoyances over the years and now things just work the way _I_ want them to work. Rather than changing the way I work to fit the my tools.

I just started a new job that has forced me to use OSX. It truly feels like a form of asceticism to me. Can't change anything, accept what Apple gives you and suffer quietly.

Having to relearn how to do things less efficiently (and being mostly powerless to improve it) was very humbling for me.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#58

Post by jwells89 »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #23

I don't get it, for me a computer is a tool. I want to get away from it as fast as possible, having to tweak the environment is a waste of time . That's why I like macos so much, nothing is perfect but I know that whatever I do there are tools somewhat easy to use . For instance I wanted to read an epub on my computer that runs windows, believe it or not but finding a good or even descent epub reader is a nightmare.…

The sheer lack of useful software in a stock Windows install has always been a bit baffling to me. Linux is better in this regard (depending on distribution), but nothing beats macOS for time from fresh install to usability. Not only does it come with most of the basics covered, apps like Mail don’t favor Apple’s services, unlike on Windows where MS can’t pass up the chance to upsell an MS service.

Re: Linux Asceticism

#59

Post by lambdaba »

GuB-42 wrote: post #53
sevensor wrote: post #2

It’s funny, I feel quite the opposite. Using windows is a form of asceticism, and Linux is the easy way. Everything just works under Linux, but under Windows, things go wrong for no apparent reason, the system installs updates and reboots without me telling it to, there is massive network traffic that I didn’t initiate, none of my tools work properly, there are ads on the start menu, and software I know I installed i…

> Everything just works under Linux If you mean a Linux desktop PC, then no. I have been using a Linux desktop for many years, but not exclusively. I have tried, but I always have had at least a dual-boot with Windows. Yes, you have more control under Linux, but the reason I still use Windows sometimes is that many things just don't work properly. Just look at here for a list: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linu…

re: https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.t...

super tangential but am I the only one who has an undying love for the Tahoma font?

Re: Linux Asceticism

#60

Post by cropcirclbureau »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #23

I don't get it, for me a computer is a tool. I want to get away from it as fast as possible, having to tweak the environment is a waste of time . That's why I like macos so much, nothing is perfect but I know that whatever I do there are tools somewhat easy to use . For instance I wanted to read an epub on my computer that runs windows, believe it or not but finding a good or even descent epub reader is a nightmare.…

Folks have been espousing the quality, stock software that macOS and iOS sports as the final word on this conversation since a while now. (And almost always, focusing on the epub readers). I'll admit that it's a general leg up for the getting started UX and makes it easier to recommend to grandma but it's not really that big of a deal as you make it out to be. And yes, I also hate having to configure shit.

Sure, you have to spend some time to find the best tools at first but it's not really something you have to do regularly. This goes for Windows, Linux and Android, I've been using the same few apps for basic computing tasks for a decade now on all of these platforms and I can confidently most are still the community's choice in their niche. Truly, aren't SumatraPDF, Calibere and MoonReader a web search away?

And sure, the app stores on these platforms are a relative mess but it sure does seem the larger useebase they're serving is getting along fine. And not to mention the many other cases where you'll actually have to pay for some basic utility on macOS. Apple products are generally the best in class, don't get me wrong but this is hardly the differentiator the way I look at it.

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