Earlier quoted context omitted.
> These all come down to arguments about semantics and don't add anything to the science. This accurately describes much of science... > My heart can exist independently of me, and be transplanted into other people, but does it mean that it is alive? The cells that comprise your heart are very much alive, but they will die without support infrastructure. They live, they replicate, they die -- like every cell in your…
> If I relocate you to the moon without support infrastructure, you would die too -- and yet (I think?) you are probably alive. It seems to me that the alternative to people being alive quite quickly reduces to nothing is alive by way of information theory.
Mitochondria Are Alive
391–400 of 412 posts
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This accurately describes much of science... It is more related to the philosophy of science. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science
More like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
P.S. I'm not implying his grandfather was Gimli even if Gimli theoretically had two grandfathers.
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
--or-- yes, when someone writes a very unclear sentence and then blames the reader for not understanding it...even going so far as to accuse the reader of bad-faith motivations.
>>> ...for cannibalizing to be a positive-selective-trait, the species would had either adapted to eating the liver - the "resilience/filter" of a system, ... >I have no idea what you meant by liver. Maybe it's a biology term I'm unaware of. Certainly you didn't mean the organ. lolz. >writes a very unclear sentence and then blames the reader...to accuse the reader of bad-faith motivations.... How would I know my read…
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#394Mitochondria are why I’m a Rare Earther. In Earth’s history, mitochondrial endosymbiosis occurred once. Without that you don’t have the energy budget for complex life. Moreover, there may be a narrow window where it can happen: modern microbiology has defences and selection pressures that it make inhospitable to the hobbling chimeræ the first mitochondrial cells would have been. Until mitochondria, the emergence of l…
This process, known as primary endosymbiosis, happened at least twice, for mitochondria and chloroplasts. Further, while all chloroplasts (and more widely plastids) appear to share a common ancestor, there is evidence that mitochondria may descend from multiple lineages that underwent lateral gene transfer and/or convergent evolution. Nitroplasts are a likely another, separate instance of primary endosymbiosis. There…
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>> ...for cannibalizing to be a positive-selective-trait, the species would had either adapted to eating the liver - the "resilience/filter" of a system, ... >I have no idea what you meant by liver. Maybe it's a biology term I'm unaware of. Certainly you didn't mean the organ. lolz. >writes a very unclear sentence and then blames the reader...to accuse the reader of bad-faith motivations.... How would I know my read…
You edited your post after first insulting me, then deleting the insult. Yes I saw it, but I removed my acknowledgment of the insult, only after you removed the insult. But you weren't done yet...just taking care not to have "flaggable" wording. Now it's more stilted language and Latin FTW. Did I miss anything?
neither of us had the incentive to either acknowledge our edits nor call the other out,
nor face the (perceived, social, higher-order) dissonance of being slightly unclear or "wrong" due to our own ego/self-interest (conscious, lower ordered self);
the emergent behavior then (gentleman's agreement) was to preserve our own ego's and not call out each other edits - which most people would never do, because:
our slightly varied ideas compete more fiercely for the same finite pool than other, completely niche-unrelated abstractions.
we are 4 layers deep now, but ill reduce for conciseness (for lurkers fwiw)
dont shit where you eat dont hit a man when he's down morality is cowardice we are now full circle.
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
You edited your post after first insulting me, then deleting the insult. Yes I saw it, but I removed my acknowledgment of the insult, only after you removed the insult. But you weren't done yet...just taking care not to have "flaggable" wording. Now it's more stilted language and Latin FTW. Did I miss anything?
nope, just demonstrated my point further-er-er: neither of us had the incentive to either acknowledge our edits nor call the other out, nor face the (perceived, social, higher-order) dissonance of being slightly unclear or "wrong" due to our own ego/self-interest (conscious, lower ordered self); the emergent behavior then (gentleman's agreement) was to preserve our own ego's and not call out each other edits - which…
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
nope, just demonstrated my point further-er-er: neither of us had the incentive to either acknowledge our edits nor call the other out, nor face the (perceived, social, higher-order) dissonance of being slightly unclear or "wrong" due to our own ego/self-interest (conscious, lower ordered self); the emergent behavior then (gentleman's agreement) was to preserve our own ego's and not call out each other edits - which…
And now back to reality: I only edit posts to add an important point or fix a typo, but you edited your post to remove the insult it initially contained.
A decently display of faith should at least warrant a re-parsing of my (actually perfectly unambiguous) grammatical clarity, of which you implied was less than so.
Warrants the question, why not admit my posit:
That slightly-varied entities competing for the same/similar finite/limited supply pool of resources/demands will tend towards -- as an emergent behavior of both short-term disorderly self-incentivization and the stochastic long-term higher-order unconscious collective collusion -- the tendency to compete until dominance over **reproductive** rights are secured, but no more. The more fiercer the competition, the more selective the sieve, the more the dominant traits propagate: up to a plateaued point. Further complexity/order can than be more efficiently achieved by lessening the furiousity of the competition to a point of cooperation, which then innately lends itself to more hierarchy, efficient use of energy.
People aren't intimated by people that cannot replace them, they are by people that can.Take it from Roko the Replacer:
According to Sigmund Freud's psychoanalytic theory, the "fear of being replaced" is most closely linked to the concept of "castration anxiety," particularly within the context of the Oedipus complex, where a young boy fears his father will punish him for desiring his mother by castrating him, essentially rendering him "replaced" in her affections.
But somewhere between a middle school drop out and a super-intelligence and 5-layers QED, I think my posit has merit.Free to continue discussion; but the under the Ego lies the Id, and I'm not well versed in that science yet, still approximating.
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
And now back to reality: I only edit posts to add an important point or fix a typo, but you edited your post to remove the insult it initially contained.
The insult was my inference that we should assume good faith, and that you had not done so (provably, by your 'lulz' snark); which you clearly did not show when assuming something other than the "liver" would be a organ of filtering toxins. A decently display of faith should at least warrant a re-parsing of my (actually perfectly unambiguous) grammatical clarity, of which you implied was less than so. Warrants the qu…
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#399Mitochondria are why I’m a Rare Earther. In Earth’s history, mitochondrial endosymbiosis occurred once. Without that you don’t have the energy budget for complex life. Moreover, there may be a narrow window where it can happen: modern microbiology has defences and selection pressures that it make inhospitable to the hobbling chimeræ the first mitochondrial cells would have been. Until mitochondria, the emergence of l…
All planets with a diverse chemical makeup will stumble across accidental formation of a replicator molecule. It's 100% certain. That's all that's required for "life". People have theorized even a 50 base pair segment of RNA might be capable of building exact copies of itself, either by snapping in half and auto-forming the same other half, or by other means. Since there's two sexes, it was perhaps a "halving" at tha…
Those RNA molecules are also going to be ~two orders of magnitude larger than a water molecule, so you're going to need a bigger pool...
To actually replicate, some loose ingredient molecules must also be present, and in reasonable quantities to be at hand in any given place in the pool.
The argument you are actually making is that a vessel that is filled with randomly assembled chunks of RNA not shorter than 50 base pairs each, the quantity of which equal the number of molecules of water in an Olympic pool, would contain life with probability ~1.
Now, the ocean is large, and a billion years is a long time, but I'm a long way from convinced that the chance of life is 100% on any given suitable planet.
Re: Mitochondria Are Alive
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't seem the article addresses this, but I'd ask these questions: "would it be possible that mitochondria's evolutional interest and the organism's interest are not aligned?" "how many independent DNA can an organism possess?" "why mitochondria do not elicit immune reactions? Or can they?"
1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother%27s_curse 2) By "organism" I assume you mean "cell" since humans have several thousand different species with their own DNA living on or inside the body at any given moment. We can speak of animal cells, which have two (species and mitochondria) - and plant cells, which have three (species, mitochondria, and chloroplasts). If there can be one two or three, I don't see why there…
And chloroplasts have separate DNAs from the species ones? That really is also eye-opening.. Biology is full of wonders.