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I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

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Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#221

Post by VirusNewbie »

nostrademons wrote: post #179
sangnoir wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This might also be a microcosm of why the working class is pissed off in America I know it's topical, but I really don't think the working class on America is pissed because they are struggling to increase their annual income from $350,000 to $500,000 at their Big Tech job. That's an elites-problem; or whatever you choose to call anyone in the top 5% earning bracket.

It's not the dollar values so much as the incentive structure. I think most Americans have a core value of "work hard, get compensated for your work". There's a basic value of fairness and meritocracy, that you can take steps to control your destiny and will be rewarded proportionally. When you've been at Google for a few years these days, you realize that this isn't really true. Nobody knows or cares how good a prog…

>Your ability to get promoted is basically dependent upon how well your manager knows how to work the system

not great

>and then whether you listen to your manager.

I mean that's part of the job, no?

I'm sure the system isn't perfect, but I was a wee programmer back in the day when it was way more common for MBA types to be managing programmers, the idea that solid technical skills might get you promoted to the compensation of what a director might make was almost unheared of.

G's sytem of promo isn't perfect, it emphasizes the wrong things, but it's forward progress in the long run.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#222

Post by amrocha »

dataflow wrote: post #216
amrocha wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being “stuck” at a job for a decade, living a life with zero financial worries, does not compare to the average worker who has to work for 40+ years, cannot afford to purchase property, and has to rely on social security in old age when they can’t work anymore. Claiming these are anywhere comparable is an incredibly lack of perspective.

> does not compare to the average worker who has to work for 40+ years, cannot afford to purchase property, and has to rely on social security in old age when they can’t work anymore. Claiming these are anywhere comparable is an incredibly lack of perspective. The parent was talking about their country, not the USA.

I’m not familiar with any country where this pattern is untrue. From Canada and USA, to Brazil, France, and Japan.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#223

Post by amrocha »

ratmeadow wrote: post #219
amrocha wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being “stuck” at a job for a decade, living a life with zero financial worries, does not compare to the average worker who has to work for 40+ years, cannot afford to purchase property, and has to rely on social security in old age when they can’t work anymore. Claiming these are anywhere comparable is an incredibly lack of perspective.

Yall are missing the point and reading what you want to read. I am quite aware of the perspective. There are people on the streets in my city because the median income is $70k and the median house is $1.5M. They are thoroughly screwed by the system. My point is not to garner sympathy for the top earners. My point is that almost all of us are earning far below what we should when you look at the grand scheme of things…

I think I see what you’re saying, and I agree with you that the wealth inequality between the ultra rich and everyone else is the real challenge. The tech worker with a Google salary is a lot closer to a homeless man on the street than he is to the true 1% in the US, and that’s a real problem.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#224

Post by fragmede »

cipheredStones wrote: post #218
fragmede wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% down on a 3 million dollar home is $600k. If they can't save that much in 5 years making $500k/yr, dare I say they're really not trying hard enough? say you only see half of that 500k after taxes (which is low since that 500k isn't cash comp and you wait for long term capital gains to kick in). $250k/yr - saving $120k, still gives you $130k post-tax, or $10,800/month to rent, pay for groceries, utilities, fuel, r…

I agree with you in general, but this part is off: > which is low since that 500k isn't cash comp and you wait for long term capital gains to kick in Stock that a company gives you as compensation is treated as ordinary income at the time it vests, based on the value when it vests. If your total comp is $250k salary + $1M in stock over four years, and the stock value stays flat, your taxes are the same as if you got…

Good point! You're totally right, assuming they're RSUs, which they probably are.

There are more exotic situations where they aren't, and also there are ESPPs (employee stock purchase program) which are also different though that's not a grant, but I don't want to rathole on stock option grant stuff here.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#225

Post by throwaway215234 »

laweijfmvo wrote: post #187
throwaway215234 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google comp is known to be low. Top candidates with in-demand skills can easily ask for 2x TC of google and get a stream of offers pouring in.

ask where?

If you indicate that you're available, and you have a attractive public profile, top headhunters will contact you.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#226

Post by throwaway215234 »

izacus wrote: post #159
throwaway215234 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of high-paying companies, if you work on hard engineering problems. Probably not many for CRUD or frontend.

Let's hear some examples :)

HFT (evergreen), kernel hacker, machine learning engineer, AI compiler engineer, GPU engineer are the top of the crop currently.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#227

Post by r0ze-at-hn »

SamvitJ wrote: post #79
r0ze-at-hn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> author seems like they were only there for a promotion It is more the other way around. Internally google taught/teaches engineers that their only goal is promotion. All parts of this used to be very very public. There are whole presentations, decks, docs, and more. What level you are and what level the person you are talking to ~mattered~. The goal isn't to be a good engineer, to make good products, or anything li…

This is just not true, sorry, even now. Google is one of the tech companies known for deemphasizing level visibility and titles. Case in point: almost three years in, and I don't know the levels of many of my colleagues. Though sometimes one can guess.

Yes, the last few years there has been a big push to try to hide levels, don't celebrate promos as publicly, etc, but the overall you can't overnight change (if ever) a culture that has been built for two decades around this concept.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#228

Post by SideQuark »

safety1st wrote: post #196
sangnoir wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This might also be a microcosm of why the working class is pissed off in America I know it's topical, but I really don't think the working class on America is pissed because they are struggling to increase their annual income from $350,000 to $500,000 at their Big Tech job. That's an elites-problem; or whatever you choose to call anyone in the top 5% earning bracket.

Maybe not when you put it that way, but small businesses used to be a larger share of the economy and a more viable "rags to riches" path than they are today. The system is undoubtedly rigged to favor large businesses - most people understand that intuitively but the anti-trust cases the government is currently prosecuting and in many cases winning are hard evidence of how the US really punted on protecting the small…

Small businesses are no less viable than ever. Read some historical BLS and SBA stats, SUSB at Census.gov, or pretty much any proper place that tracks historical businesses data.

There’s literally tens of millions of small businesses, over 10% of the US working population is first gen millionaires.

Just because not everyone is Warren Buffet or the tech echo chamber here only looks at app style businesses doesn’t mean millions of people are not succeeding.

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#229

Post by eplatzek »

shadowgovt wrote: post #33
asdfman123 wrote: post #32

This is also why I'm thinking about leaving Google. I have little to sit through meetings, try to pawn necessary work off to others, and play the game while there's a hundred small tasks that my project desperately needs me to get done. I can jump ship and make $50-100k/yr more because the next place I work will actually value my experience, even though it's technically much more useful to Google.

I did this. Google (at least, the chain of managers I had) didn't know how to manage people like me and I wish I'd realized it sooner. I make more money now doing more effective work faster at a smaller company with a focused project, not a 100,000-person everything company.

would you be willing to share how much more you made and what you had been making?

Re: I quit Google to work for myself (2018)

#230

Post by chickenzzzzu »

SideQuark wrote: post #228
safety1st wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not when you put it that way, but small businesses used to be a larger share of the economy and a more viable "rags to riches" path than they are today. The system is undoubtedly rigged to favor large businesses - most people understand that intuitively but the anti-trust cases the government is currently prosecuting and in many cases winning are hard evidence of how the US really punted on protecting the small…

Small businesses are no less viable than ever. Read some historical BLS and SBA stats, SUSB at Census.gov, or pretty much any proper place that tracks historical businesses data. There’s literally tens of millions of small businesses, over 10% of the US working population is first gen millionaires. Just because not everyone is Warren Buffet or the tech echo chamber here only looks at app style businesses doesn’t mean…

Hold on, you are conflating two things. How many first gen millionaires got there through their own small business, compared to big corp RSUs?
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