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Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

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Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#51

Related: — “The leanternet principles” https://leanternet.com/ > — “The 250KB Club - The Web Is Doom” https://250kb.club/ >

Also:

— “Sustainable Web Design” https://sustainablewebdesign.org/>

— ”Other 'clubs'”: no-js.club, 1mb.club, 512kb.club, 250kb.club, 10kbclub.com, 1kb.club, js1k.com, js1024.fun

— “CSS Minecraft – written in 100% HTML/CSS with 0 javascript” https://benjaminaster.com/css-minecraft/>

— “Low Tech – a solar-powered website” https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/>

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#52
The most sustainable thing we could do for web capable devices is to make right to repair mandatory and include in that driver specifications required for custom software/firmware. e.g. an old iPad is now obsolete, but it may work fine it just can't connect to modern TLS and doesn't trust new root CA certs.

If it was possible to updated old devices with any custom OS, many devices would continue to work instead of being disposed of.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#53
post #17
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it can carry a weight similar to WCAG levels, which means that product managers and customers might pay more attention to these requirements, especially if they like ticking boxes. "Our new update means we reach WGAC 2 Level AA to > 90% and WSG to 60%, next release we aim to reach WSG to >70%" might be something we hear next year.

Do you really think the same news organizations that send the user 4mb worth of cross origin Javascript just to show 6kb of text is really gonna back track like that?

Yes. I live and work with this and I think it will help. It's not going to be quick, or a silver bullet, but very few problems in this world have quick and easy solutions.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#54

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

Not sure why JS is the problem though. You can use JS in small doses to drastically improve the user experience on websites. The fact that heavy frameworks are sometimes used in contexts where they are overkill is not strictly JS' fault. By that logic you would also need to go down the rabbit hole of what compilers produce efficient programs on the server side and ban everything else.

I think the tools we have nowadays are perfectly fine. It's a matter of how they are used. And I am pretty sure efficiency is not what companies think of when they launch a product.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not sure what they meant, yet you think you know what they are looking for?

I am not sure this dice will roll less than six, but I think it will.

I am not sure what you meant, but I am sure there is a function with an infinite number of possibilities that it is really relatable to something.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#56
post #3

I hope they're successful. I think the web really needs some "decluttering". The ratio of processing power by useful payload nowadays is unsustainable. For example any news website, in order to read some text, you need to load a ton of JavaScript, ads (some even video) that add zero value to the intended purpose. My nostalgia wants some of the early 00s web again, but I believe in something between. Which consumes fa…

I recall in the early 00's people would proudly display that their HTML/CSS was 100% valid.

Maybe a badge/score to say how well a site is for efficiency, at least for the front end. Unused code etc being deductible from say a score of 100.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#57

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

Is there a reason why there seemingly aren't any frameworks to do all the fancy web flourish in a normal language and then have it compile down to plain HTML5 + CSS + SVG?

You can compile almost any language to JS or WASM.

As to HTML + CSS: it goes other way around: HTML and CSS (or rather its subsets) are being integrated into "normal languages", like Qt, Java. I'm not sure I ever saw any technology that could serve as a replacement for HTML + CSS. May be Eclipse RAP or Blazor? But they are so heavy that React will look like a butterfly and they're not aiming to replace HTML/CSS but rather just use it as output medium for their UI.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#58

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

How do you define absolutely necessary? Shitty JS frameworks written by incompetent people are absolutely necessary to the revenue of advertising media.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#59
Everyone in the comments wants to blame JavaScript for the world’s ills. That is both stupid and grossly uninformed.

When you live next to a Google or Facebook data center some reality starts to set in. They easily consume most of the output of a single small urban power plant on their own. It’s nuts. I didn’t realize how nuts it is until someone explained it to me, in my part time job I work with a Houston based power company lawyer that specializes in contracts for data centers. I doubt those massive data centers are reliant on JavaScript.

As for JavaScript there is a simple solution that works wonders in every other industry: licensing and liability. The code is bad because the developers that write it are shit. That’s never going to change until businesses have a financial incentive to train for competence. All the wishful thinking about less JavaScript is just more virtue signaling.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#60
Small bundle sizes are anti-Google/Facebook/et al. Google/Facebook needs to create standards to maintain control of the web and then incentivize implementation of those features in bundles. Chrome itself has a huge resource footprint, that often mirrors the common Ruby-ism about high resource usage.
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