Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed • Hacker News Board

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#41

Post by AstroJetson » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 3:09 AM UTC

bschwindHN wrote: post #36

tsobral wrote: post #3

I hope they're successful. I think the web really needs some "decluttering". The ratio of processing power by useful payload nowadays is unsustainable. For example any news website, in order to read some text, you need to load a ton of JavaScript, ads (some even video) that add zero value to the intended purpose. My nostalgia wants some of the early 00s web again, but I believe in something between. Which consumes fa…

> For example any news website, in order to read some text, you need to load a ton of JavaScript, ads (some even video) that add zero value to the intended purpose I'm still running the original iPhone SE from 2016, and there are basically two things that will reliably heat up the phone and absolutely destroy the battery: news websites, and the github web frontend. It's pathetic how many resources these things use wh…

Reading this and replying on a 2014 IPad Air. About 70% of the sites I goto work just fine. Oddly, about 1/2 of GitHub works. Old.reddit works, FB is horribly broke. So it’s clearly a resource thing. The more complicated the Javascript, the worse things run.

So it’s not only the resources needed by page, but that older devices end up in landfills.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#42

Post by CuriousCosmic » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 3:55 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #35

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

Is there a reason why there seemingly aren't any frameworks to do all the fancy web flourish in a normal language and then have it compile down to plain HTML5 + CSS + SVG?

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#43

Post by zekrioca » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 4:38 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #35

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

One should not confuse energy-efficiency with sustainability. Yes, pushing simpler frameworks to its limits is good, but it is not the main issue, nor it is enough given the exponential growth in demand that we have been witnessing.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#44

Post by aaronblohowiak » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 4:51 AM UTC

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #42

userbinator wrote: post #35

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

Is there a reason why there seemingly aren't any frameworks to do all the fancy web flourish in a normal language and then have it compile down to plain HTML5 + CSS + SVG?

not sure what you mean, but htmx might be what you are looking for?

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#45

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 5:32 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #35

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

[deleted]

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#46

Post by zekrioca » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 5:40 AM UTC

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #44

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason why there seemingly aren't any frameworks to do all the fancy web flourish in a normal language and then have it compile down to plain HTML5 + CSS + SVG?

not sure what you mean, but htmx might be what you are looking for?

You are not sure what they meant, yet you think you know what they are looking for?

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#47

Post by tlarkworthy » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 5:52 AM UTC

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #42

userbinator wrote: post #35

It's a good effort, but a lot of this stuff reads more like the usual bureaucratic virtue-signaling that's popular these days. All that's needed to drastically decrease energy use is to just take late-90s/early 2000s web technology and push it to its limits. Zero JS unless absolutely necessary. Two days ago I was watching the election results on various sites, along with many others. Some sites just didn't work in a…

Is there a reason why there seemingly aren't any frameworks to do all the fancy web flourish in a normal language and then have it compile down to plain HTML5 + CSS + SVG?

astro is a modern framework "optimised for content heavy websites" i.e. vanilla assets mostly except when asked for something more.

[1] https://astro.build/

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#48

Post by zekrioca » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 5:52 AM UTC

PikachuEXE wrote: post #40

Sustainability: The Tyranny of the 21st Century https://newdiscourses.com/2021/10/sustainability-tyranny-21s... Sustainability is going to be the buzzword of the century. Everywhere we turn, we hear about sustainable practices in business and industry, sustainable foods and agriculture, sustainable energy, and so on. Businesses and governments sign on to “Sustainable Development Goals,” and so civil responsibility is…

I’m having a hard time understanding what your problem with the “sustainability” concept is. Don’t you think that “efficiency” was the tyrant of the 20th century yet no one complains about it in the 21st century? What about “AI”?

Yes, sustainability will mean different things across different domains, because for some reason people are starting to realize the consequences of their actions in the real world. What else would you expect?

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#49

Post by Buttons840 » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 5:57 AM UTC

zekrioca wrote: post #46

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure what you mean, but htmx might be what you are looking for?

You are not sure what they meant, yet you think you know what they are looking for?

I am not sure this dice will roll less than six, but I think it will.

Re: Sustainable Web Interest Group Is Formed

#50

Post by kettlecorn » Fri, Nov 08, 2024, 6:15 AM UTC

I was sort of hoping that this was about sustaining the web itself and preventing things like link rot and centralization of content in non-web privately owned platforms.

Still, this is important too.